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Thread #: 1499

Why is it....

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Mon Mar 4 20:54:15 2002

Why is it that people associate the willfull destruction of Microsoft and Windows along with it as somehow "restoring the right to choose one's operating system"

IT absolutely boggles the properly working mind.  you see, the vast majority of users chose Windows.  They could have chosen MacOS or linux or Be, but the market chose windows.

yeah MS did a few shady deals by requiring vendors to ship only Windows.  But since no one manufactures both PC's and Macintoshes, that really has no bearing on not being able to choose a Mac if one so desires, does it?  And believe me, for the vast majority of average joes out there it was either MacOS or Windows and nothing else was remotely usable from the perspective of the average joe market.

Linux?  yeah, right.

BeOS?  It was headed down the right path, but Be and Be alone determined it's demise.  Once upon a time there was some rather significant software development going on from the likes of Maxon and Gobe and such, but then Be decided that there was too much natural market barrier and decided to switch focii thereby leaving developers in the cold.

Be Killed BeOS.

What about buisnesses you say:  there is a market that has always had choice, yet continues to choose windows over MaOS, Linux, Unix, etc.

Why?

consider this; offer each computer with a different OS Preloaded.  The Mac will be more expensive and have less choice in games.

Linux will be far more limited in available software and have ease of use issues.

The end result is that 95% of the people will chose Windows.

Windows won it's market pretty much by default.  But there are those who insist on ruining MS and Windows will offer me more choice?  More likely it will superimpose their choice on me.  iTard are like Facist Pigs that way.

HitScan

Mon Mar 4 21:25:41 2002

Bah, I know what post you're talking about, it was fats who wrote it, right? He was just trolling, there's no other explanation, unless he's a deeply imbittered anti-MS"I sold my soul for a G4" type Maclot. If that's the case, he may indeed have believed that silly shit.

Spooky, ne?

Magus

Tue Mar 5 00:02:25 2002

Hmmm, sounds like The_Shitman, too...
Jeremy Reimer

Tue Mar 5 01:10:17 2002

The real irony of the whole thing is that it was Apple, not Microsoft, that wanted to take away choice.  There was a little-known graphical interface for DOS called GEM released by Digital Research (Ventura Publisher used it in standalone form-- most VP users had no idea they were using GEM)

Anyway, Apple sued DR over GEM and forced them to totally castrate the interface, to the point of uselessness.  They also sued Microsoft, but MS didn't cave in, he held his ground and eventually the case was thrown out.  GEM died a quick death in its "new, more useless!" form, thanks to Apple.

So if Apple had its way, there would be no other GUIs at all other than the Macintosh!  Wouldn't that have been great?  :rolleyes:

Anyway, I'm still thinking about buying an iBook.  Heh.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Mar 5 02:19:27 2002

Heh, well wonders never cease,

But don't try to tell that to the history revisionists of the BF and Achaia:

Anyway, yes JR the iBook is probably Apple's best value right now.  It seems to be a good machine and I am sort of interested in getting one as well (I think I'm going to get a PM first)

Anyway, when I update my mac hardware I'm also going to set aside some money for some software too. :)

I'm not sure what.

OscarWilde

Tue Mar 5 07:03:15 2002


Last night i was using mac os x on my dual g4/533 using chimera and mozilla

at work i'm between a Dual PIII/866 using IE 6 or 9600/G4350(upgrade card) using IE 5.1 because i can't get mozilla to connect via my NT proxy server :( so that meant i was also using my windows nt server trying to figure out why my socks proxy ain't working!

Today at work i'm using a sony vaio 750mhz laptop running IE 6 on a 15inch screen and the daulie piii/866

I took out my 9600 because the harddrive is getting screwy (read: its old and its nearing its end). I don't want to spend money on a scsi harddrive for the powermac.

So i just took the sony laptop and started using it! :biggrin:

my boss is probably wondering why.... i'll tell him one day... ;)

anyway, looks like i can convince the A/C dept to let me build an AMD box! woohoo!!!! I might dable with linux since i don't think Win 2k (or XP) takes up a full 80 gig drive...

shall i try redhat?...
hmmm...

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Mar 5 07:06:18 2002

shall i try redhat?...

IIRC, the Penguista recommend RedHat or Madrake for relative n00bs.  Slackware and Debian are for the 733T!

I am going to install Linux on my dual in the next few days.

We shall both be in poopnix bliss :)

PaoloM

Tue Mar 5 17:20:19 2002

from OscarWilde posted at 11:03 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
shall i try redhat?...
hmmm...

It doesn't matter. Whatever distro you'll choose, you'll be wrong and a moron because <insert other distro here> is SOOOO much better.
OscarWilde

Wed Mar 6 03:57:57 2002

I realised i forgot to add my point to my previous post.

I found it ironic that Jeremy is planning on an iBook as he already has a wintel desktop.

On the other side of the world, i have a mac desktop and i'm thinking of getting a pc laptop as having two desktops takes up to much of my limited space at home.

Off course my point is that i use pc's and macs back and forth so getting a pc laptop would not be something new as i know how to use both Windows (the various versions) and MacOS (various vers.) so to keep at pace with Jeremy's desire to experience a new platform I decided to do the same.
I've played with redhat for about a week on my old favorite Pentium Pro 200 Mhz desktop...

Ah the lovely original P-Pro full 32bit Chip from intel... what a beautiful monstor for its time... /me wipes joyful tear from eye... <sniff>

Anyway, as much as i thought the Enlightenment KDE (or whatever its called, i'm sure digital fury would correct me ;) ) was VERY COOL, the performance was crap as i had no knowledge of how to set up Linux properly.

I figure now with the push to make linux easier to install i should be able to get current distro's install out of the box and get pretty decent performance without much tweaking. Plus i want to sound 1337 by being able to post that i have a linux laptop!

ooooohhhh....

/me preens me self for being uber 1337!

OscarWilde

Wed Mar 6 04:01:17 2002

hmmm... i don't think i made my point very clear did i..

wait a second, this is OSY, <homer>doh!</homer>

we don't need no bloody points in OSY.. just smammering bastards ye fools!

yes i'm on drugs...

Magus

Wed Mar 6 06:11:02 2002

Drugs? And you didn't offer to share? Bastard.

:)

Socrates

Wed Mar 6 06:55:35 2002

Jeremy's point is well taken.  I strongly suspect Apple is trying to limit hardware, and software access to OS X, or they are just incompetent idiots, making driver writing super hard for their major supporters, both software, and hardware, ala MSFT.

Truth is, JR is right on the money.  Apple is a wannabe MSFT, but, also can screw you on hardware.

To put it bluntly, why would anyone in their right mind buy an unstable os from Apple, when, in the next two or three revisions, it's highly likely the 'upgrade' of the os may not have support for your 'old' machine?

You better make damn sure EVERYTHING you need is functional, and working, with all hardware, and software, before you even look at a mac.

How would you like to spend 2500 bucks on a Lombard, on the promise that it will be supported in OS X, and, find out apple, or ATI couldn't be bothered to write a driver for your screen, so, OS X, contrary to Apple's promise, wont' work on your book?
Or, you spend 6 thousand on a state of the art laptop, and, a year later, it's gone down 83% in value?

No, macs are no longer really upgradeable.  Seems Apple is pretty determined to follow MSFT, forcing you to buy new systems, since they don't support many legacy cards, etc. even scsi, in their new os.

As for Linux, I have messed around with Redhat, and, with a bit of tweaking, it frigging flys.

Do I have time to learn all it's tricks, and, as a desktop system, is it functional, with software, etc?  

No, but, that's my bad, and I'm not a full time geek.

I would be careful to pick components that are supported in the distro you intend to use, prior to installing.

I would also consider a separate, or removeable drive for the linux install.

2000 and a linux distro can be an install art all in itself.

Odd that it would be difficult to install another operating os, other then MSFT's own, ???:rolleyes:


I think the industry is at a point where you are better off putting the least amount of money into any machine you buy, since, their is no promise, with any os, that the components you buy in one os, are going to be supported in another.

In fact, with the cutbacks, it's more likely that that Cannon Scanner that works so well in 98 will never have an XP driver written for it, forcing you to buy another product, compatible with your new os...

Finally, I find the MSFT os just work better with what I do.

They are faster, have better component compatibility, work better with most webpages(I can't tell you how many times I have the "Can not open webpage because the MRJ version you have is to fucking old, and, you will never be able to find the current version, on our website, forcing you to upgrade to OS 9, or X"  on the computers at school.

Even a junk version of 98 works better then the macs the kids have to use at school...

So, I figure, buy the minimum that you can work, and, is cost efficent, make sure the parts will last forever, and use it for at least 5 years, keeping the computer folks out of your pockets...

gs


DeAthe

Wed Mar 6 07:28:39 2002


I would also consider a separate, or removeable drive for the linux install.

No need for that, all os's share the drive equally. I have not seen any software failure in my 10 years using computers that will kill the partition table, unless of course, you where doing something dreadfully stupid or dangerous.


2000 and a linux distro can be an install art all in itself.

Not really, you can use MS's stock bootloader to boot your *nix partition, it's almost the same as using *nix w/ 98.

Anyway, as much as i thought the Enlightenment KDE (or whatever its called, i'm sure digital fury would correct me  ) was VERY COOL, the performance was crap as i had no knowledge of how to set up Linux properly.

Englightenment was a window manager, used to be kind of the defacto standard manager for Gnome quite a few versions back. IMHO pretty as hell, but not really useable for much.

I figure now with the push to make linux easier to install i should be able to get current distro's install out of the box and get pretty decent performance without much tweaking. Plus i want to sound 1337 by being able to post that i have a linux laptop!

Linux on a laptop can be a art in of itself, it's a pain. Yes, for the most part it'll work perfectly, but depending on what's installed, as in my laptops winmodem and winNIC life can be difficult getting them to work. Use Redhat if you want to put linux on a laptop... It's easy to install and configure, especially if your a newb.

Socrates

Wed Mar 6 08:07:16 2002

Deathe:

98 nix dual boots was an easy, install option, using LILO.
Doing it with 2000 is a bit more involved?

Redhat dual boots in particular can be a problem.

Also, performance issues are usually resolved the first time you run hdparm.
I like Redhat, but, I've got too much 2000 and 98 software to give up that dual boot, and not enough time to really figure out the RH tricks...

gs

DeAthe

Wed Mar 6 08:17:32 2002

Socrates: Naw still simple, but a few more steps if you want it to be really clean.

Absolute simplicity? Use GRUB, built in boot loader for Redhat, it'll work just peachy in XP/2k/NT.

Nice way of doing it is to install lilo into your linux non bootable partition
extract boot sector from partition using DD
copy boot sector to your windows boot partition
edit boot.ini to point to your linux partition.

More complex the second way, but it integrates seamlessy into the bootloader.

Also, performance issues are usually resolved the first time you run hdparm.

I don't know what you mean here.

DeAthe

Wed Mar 6 08:24:12 2002

Oh yea, one thing I forgot to mention, using win2k's bootloader, everytime you update lilo you need to re-extract the boot sector, which can be a pita.
AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Sat Apr 27 03:34:35 2002

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