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Thread #: 1012

Madan Madan Madan

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Oct 2 20:32:58 2001

Lets try to be civil and logical and keep the emotion out of this.

I wish to address the topic of me not knowing anything about stuff, which I realize is a crude tactic used by those who generaly wish to end the argument in their favor without bothering to address the topic at hand.  Often it is they themselves that have done inadaquate research and wish to cover up that fact by using such bullishness to disguise thier lack of study.

Now then:

!

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Madan:
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No, of course that isn't what you meant. Those are all reasonable responses to the issue and they would be helpful to the school system and the children. You want none of them?

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The most helpful response would be to have never implemented this in the first place. the best thing to do now would be to dismantle it and try to recover funds.

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Recovering funds from this is neither conclusive nor necessary. Until we've been shown that the system *can't* work. So far, a handful of teachers does not constitute massive technical expertise...

I contend that there hasn't been sufficient study to the tune that this would be successfull. So investing 19M to an unproven program to the obvious detriment to the fact that education could have used that money elsewhere is a bit out of order.


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No. I'm mentioning YOUR burden. Your tax
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Ok then. No, I do not want to pay taxes for a 19million dollar debacle such as this. No one in their righ mind would given that it started out half baked, and would be of little real benifit to students.


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!

No real benefit to provide access to best of breed researching by employing e-Books?

Actually, no.  I don't think there is much benifit here.  Surfing the net for answers has the inherent problems of running accross non-credible sources.  None of this can't be done by conventional book research.  

Having web access may be essential at various times, but will prove a distraction if it is too accessable in the schools.


No real benefit by providing communications technology that allows for a cheap- class-oriented exchange channel with other countries/cultures/parts of the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but the emphasis on "Understanding and Communicating" in todays school systems is overstated to the detriment of basic reading, writing, mathematics, and scientific topics.  It is fueled by the alterier motives of Left-Wing Extremists with their own agenda beyond providing an education.

And providing every student with a laptop is hardly a "cheap" proposition.


No real benefit serving as a library several times in size to the one they have physically, via the Internet?

Only a slight benifit.  Now students don't have to walk to the lab or the library.


No real benefit providing students with software like spreadsheets that allow for the practicing of Mathematic and Science concepts in case/group atmospheres and through *real* practice?

Which they could go to an adequately outfitted lab to accomplish. At far less cost or hassle.


No real benefit allowing students to compose assignments on the computer, thereby increasing production speed for assignments?

GO to the lab.  


No real benefit by allowing electronic collaboration between students as a means of reinforcing class material?

It doesn't reinforce it as much as it provides a distraction and misleads the kids into thinking that learning should only come as an after-effect of playing with an expensive toy rather than instilling a disipline in why learning should be important


And this is only curriculum-tied training.

It's more an attempt to manipulate students into learning by dazzling them with technology.  It ignores the fact that students are far better off realizing why learning is importand and giving them the necessary study habits that they need to develop.


Nevermind the experience in computers they'd be getting.

Which they could get in an adequately equiped lab, much more efficiently.


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Sheesh! You could build a decent sized school for that!
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Actually, you can't. But that's ok.

Actually, you can.  At least in this part of the country, and you can staff them too.


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There are plenty of schools functioning wonderfully.

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Few of them within the United States, according to standardized tests.
My school is just one example.
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Well, then I would say that yours is one of far too few that are up to snuff.


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Really? Point to more.

Look at most inner cities schools.  Look at standardized test scores in the international realm.


Then, tell me how this is supposed to be done, when salaries are poor. Tell me how technology is to be implemented when any tech can make twice that much anywhere else.

Salaries for teachers aren't going to get any better from spending millions on laptops.  

Techs are expensive.  Adding personal laptops like what they did in Henrico County in Virginia only makes the need for expensive technical staff worse by vastly increasing the infrastructure.


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And I don't think you are trying to give every kid a laptop either to the tune of millions of dollars.
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A laptop *was* ambitious and I don't agree with take-home machines, *BUT* until I see conclusive evidence(not paranoid parental ravings) of failure to the otherwise, I'd just as well like to keep an open mind, thank you.

In my experiance, having an open mind about people throwing millions of dollars at a problem haphazardly is a bad thing.



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However, If one tried to replace a crowded building with a new/larger one, that OTOH would be fine by me.


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And both would be wrong.

By your own admission, you are against building more schools and would have students learn in overcrowded and facilities.

Either that or you misunderstood what I said.


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Same thing for raising money for band instruments, or an adequate computer Lab, or busing systems even, but not for a useless jesture of a show of technology.
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Gesture?

A computer lab is inefficient because we're not adding technology for technologies sake.

Adding technology for technologies sake is the wrong thing to do.

The entire purpose of adding technology to a classroom is *primarily* to assist in the curriculum you so vehemently indicate is insufficient.

I have no problem with an adequate measure of technology.  To be sure, equipping each student with a computer is far beyond "adequate"

As for the curriculum, there was a time that this countries students did better without the toys.


We're out to teach math and science...not VB. This argument, which you and I *keep* having is troubling because you obviously don't work in a pre-college educational environment.

math and science.  That's what I want more of.

You really *just* don't know what you're talking about.

An unproven statement.


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No, I'm blaming people who gave the go-ahead for this program- The schoolboard and other officials, not the implementing Admins, or the Managers. My argument has no bearing on them one way or the other.
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So you're blaming the Superintendent for not having a budget large enough to hire experienced IS ppl?

19 Million for Laptops? no wonder there is not money left over for adaquate staffing.

Sure, ok.

:yawn:


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On the contrary. Technology as a component of education is important.
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Merely a component? Yes. However, the case we are discussing makes technology hardly a mere "component", rather they've made it unnessecarily pervasive.


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???

No, no we haven't. A computer can be a tool every bit as useful and "pervasive" as a pencil.

Except pencils are cheap and cheap to operate.

And I never said "get rid of all computers", just all those stupid laptops.


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No. It's trying to facillitate a problem. If land purchase budgets are limited by the state, what else are you going to spend the money on? Much of the money given can *only* be used on technology. Besides, if this little experiment had been a rousing success, I doubt we'd hear anyone complaining.
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Dude, that's fusked up. Over here in local school systems are having a hard time finding funding for a much needed new building and an expansion to the High School. If one really cared about kids, would it not be better to send us the money over here to cover basic facilities than waste in on personal laptops?
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It's not, i'm only questioning it's use and it's scale


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*backpedal*

You have a reading/comprehension problem.  I have not surrendered one point I have made, I only am trying to clarify.


The problem we have here is that a college tech is trying to speak for teachers in the trenches.

If I were to counter with something equally inane, I'd say that teachers have their own heds buried in said trenches to so far that they cannot correctly gauge the scale and nature of the war.


You have no breathe for the situation.

I do to, you OTOH are ignoring obvious economic repercussions that must come into consideration on the topic os school funding.


Or more simply put.

One of knows the reality of the laws that block schools from becoming better. He knows that money is scarce and that technology, through district-sponsored studies has been extremely effective.

The other is just trying to be annoying.

You, AYB, are just trying to be annoying.

No, I may be annoying but am hardly trying as I do believe my assertions are correct.

And no, you do not seem to realize "reality of the laws that block schools from becoming better".  Because most of the fault doen't lie in a shortage of resources, but for the most part the lack of students themselves to apply themselves to the tasks put to them.

Technology isn't going to change that.

Please respond cordially.

Thanks.

Madan

Tue Oct 2 20:49:25 2001

AYB, I haven't even read this post.

I'm too busy flaming prowler for mud slinging

Teachers, unions, NIE, Apple, Henrico, KRI, news services AND me....

You'll excuse me.

This moron needs a good "whuppin"

M.

Robocop Q Einstein

Tue Oct 2 21:09:41 2001

Skool iz 4 dummiezzz.
Riso

Tue Oct 2 21:16:10 2001

from Robocop Q Einstein posted at 11:09 pm on Oct. 2, 2001

Skool iz 4 dummiezzz.

That's why you've to sell your ass for a living :spank:

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Oct 2 21:48:24 2001

Well Mad,

at least you're not flaming me any more :)

Sheesh!  When you argue, you don't pull many punches, friend or foe.

If you'd notice, the above quote was directed to AYB(Johnson).

At least I respect him.

Thank you Madan,

likewise.  :)

Madan

Tue Oct 2 22:01:49 2001

AYB, feeling passionately about a topic does not preclude being right about it. Nor does it preclude logical thought concerning it.

What truly annoys me is the thought of individuals totally clueless about topics that immediately discount decades of experience simply..."because". I am happy, however that prowler has outed himself as a fusktard.

Moreso, I have been nothing *but* civil wi you. In fact, if you look at Ars, I even indicated respect for you, in a post I might add, that aired before *this* one.

prowler is a fusktard. You're just annoying.


Lets try to be civil and logical and keep the emotion out of this.

I wish to address the topic of me not knowing anything about stuff, which I realize is a crude tactic used by those who generaly wish to end the argument in their favor without bothering to address the topic at hand.  Often it is they themselves that have done inadaquate research and wish to cover up that fact by using such bullishness to disguise thier lack of study.

????

Veeeery civil. :rolleyes:

Did you know about LEAD monies employed for only specific budgets?

Did you know about land purchase restrictions?

Did you know about the effects of eBooks on children? Have you seen them implemented in a classroom? Have you seen the Net implemented in a classroom?

Have you been part of a program and actively participated in one that has implemented *any* technology successfully in the age group delineated within the article?

Have you spent the last 8 years of your life dealing wi kids directly? Have you served as a consultant for networks and systems within the district?

Do you volunteer your time to the district, for more than 20hrs a week, because you *know* that there isn't enough money to go around?

Now, I'm not trying belittle you. If I was, I'd curse you out, like prowler. Nor am I discounting your views but the sad fact is, you simply *don't* have a lot of experience concerning technology implementations(like ebooks) for kids between the ages of 10-15.

I have all of that...

And more. Now I understand that you're a bright guy. Most Ars ppl *have* to be. Computers are hard stuff.

And I know that you probably have some good ideas, which have no doubt, been dreamt up already.

However...

Do you see me telling PeterB how to instantiate variables? How to use pointers? No.

So why is it that once someone on Ars(or here) exhibits a experience/skill for something *other* than technology, individuals on this board automatically feel compelled to discount such experience/skills? While, certainly, debating curriculum is far more accessible to the layman than debating C++vs. Java, do you *honestly* believe that experience, graduate study, and working/professional connections are not a strong, if not overwhelming, factor?

If you felt that my dragging my experience out is something that I used to bully you, that wasn't my intent.

Unfortunately, teaching and scholar/IT/IS consulting isn't like programming.

You don't measure it by the amount of code lines produced. You measure a good teacher by achievement. Such achievement and performance in consulting, for that matter, is gauged in experience.

Now then:
No, of course that isn't what you meant. Those are all reasonable responses to the issue and they would be helpful to the school system and the children. You want none of them?

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The most helpful response would be to have never implemented this in the first place. the best thing to do now would be to dismantle it and try to recover funds.
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Recovering funds from this is neither conclusive nor necessary. Until we've been shown that the system *can't* work. So far, a handful of teachers does not constitute massive technical expertise...

I contend that there hasn't been sufficient study to the tune that this would be successfull. So investing 19M to an unproven program to the obvious detriment to the fact that education could have used that money elsewhere is a bit out of order.

True. But then, the money is already invested. Why pull out now, when you can learn from the situation? Moreso, you're dangerously taking prowler's word as gospel.

You read the article. Did it *actually* seem like the network was a total failure? Or did it seem like it just needed a lot of work?

One is worth pursuing. One is a fabrication by prowler.


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No. I'm mentioning YOUR burden. Your tax
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Ok then. No, I do not want to pay taxes for a 19million dollar debacle such as this. No one in their righ mind would given that it started out half baked, and would be of little real benifit to students.
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!

No real benefit to provide access to best of breed researching by employing e-Books?

Actually, no.  I don't think there is much benifit here.  Surfing the net for answers has the inherent problems of running accross non-credible sources.  None of this can't be done by conventional book research.  

You ignored my eBook contention.

Moreso, there are credible, legitimate sources on the web that can be accessed by kids. Sources that are licensed by the MDCPSS and others.

But then, you didn't know about that...did you?  How could you? You're not part of the system. It's not your fault.

Books are obsolete. My books last year were printed in 1981. If you want, I can scan you a copy and post it.

Each book now is 80 bucks a pop and, you know what? The web holds a wealth more of information.

There is no comparison.


Having web access may be essential at various times, but will prove a distraction if it is too accessable in the schools.

Not if you block distracting material. Our system has this. It's *extremely* restrictive but it works.


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No real benefit by providing communications technology that allows for a cheap- class-oriented exchange channel with other countries/cultures/parts of the U.S.?

I'm sorry, but the emphasis on "Understanding and Communicating" in todays school systems is overstated to the detriment of basic reading, writing, mathematics, and scientific topics.  It is fueled by the alterier motives of Left-Wing Extremists with their own agenda beyond providing an education.

:rolleyes:

I was talking about History, Civics and Science.

The truth is out there Mulder. ;)


And providing every student with a laptop is hardly a "cheap" proposition.

Didn't say it *had* to be a laptop. Currently, MDCPSS(wi me..yay!) is researching the possibility of using ebook readers, pads that cost less than 200 bucks but that can surf, using spreadsheets, read ebooks as well as more....

All wireless. And Wintel users should be happy because it runs on CE(for now)

Not bad.


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No real benefit serving as a library several times in size to the one they have physically, via the Internet?

Only a slight benifit.  Now students don't have to walk to the lab or the library.

ERRRNT! Wrong. BIG advantage. Books that can be accessed through universitary systems, like Duke and Berkely are also being used via the Web.

Official Science, Math and English-oriented sites(for the FCAT..our state-wide minimum curriculum assurance test) are now posted....

They're built *by* our school system. They also carry more information than a library.


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No real benefit providing students with software like spreadsheets that allow for the practicing of Mathematic and Science concepts in case/group atmospheres and through *real* practice?

Which they could go to an adequately outfitted lab to accomplish. At far less cost or hassle.

??? You mean computers in the class? That's fine wi me. As long as each student has their own machine.

Preferably iFruits......ok...whatever machine is good.


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No real benefit allowing students to compose assignments on the computer, thereby increasing production speed for assignments?

GO to the lab.

No. This won't work. I like this reasoning as an endorsement  for laptops. I don't like the idea overall, don't get me wrong. At least not if they take it home.

A computer for each kid, WHILE they're in school is good for me. A lab neither has enough machines for all students, nor is there the money for a STAFF to maintenance and supervise such a lab. Besides this, most children that age can neither stay late(especially mine, which are in an inner-city school), nor can they replace being in a lab with partaking in extracurricular activities.

A computer for each kid in the room(not laptop) would be great. Especially since most library reserves have books that are painfully outdated.


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No real benefit by allowing electronic collaboration between students as a means of reinforcing class material?

It doesn't reinforce it as much as it provides a distraction and misleads the kids into thinking that learning should only come as an after-effect of playing with an expensive toy rather than instilling a disipline in why learning should be important

ERRRNT. Wrong again. They can just as easily(more easily, in fact) talk in PERSON. Guess what? Clinton employed a taskforce that mandates group activities be used in class during the formation of each state's curriculum.

Did you know that? Not that I mind because a good teacher can mitigate goofing off and a good teacher can get the teams focused.

Moreso, as a personal martinet myself, I admit, grudgingly that group work is an excellent in-class motivator AND an excellent means of developing an atmosphere where all kids participate.

A. It's required. B. Tests have proven that schools using group work(no, not for ALL assignments) have seen at least a ONE grade increase on the FCAT. Sharing by machine could be just as useful. Especially if they have their own machines at home and the network allows access(the exact hows I leave to DF, Peter and all the other techno-geeks..that's why they get their big salaries)...


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And this is only curriculum-tied training.

It's more an attempt to manipulate students into learning by dazzling them with technology.  It ignores the fact that students are far better off realizing why learning is importand and giving them the necessary study habits that they need to develop.

Knowing why learning is important is necessary.

But you're assuming the one precludes the other.

This simply isn't the case.


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Nevermind the experience in computers they'd be getting.

Which they could get in an adequately equiped lab, much more efficiently.

No. The average student needs simple OS skills, wp and spreadsheeting.

Not coding. That could be a class for a select few.


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Sheesh! You could build a decent sized school for that!
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Actually, you can't. But that's ok.


Actually, you can.  At least in this part of the country, and you can staff them too.

Actually, you could build a small annex.

We're building a 4 floor sep. building for our school now. Coincidental, isn't it.

The building alone was 10million. That was just the frame. Furniture? Wiring? STAFF?

The numbers are over 30million. I can get you pictures of the building btw, if you're curious.

BTW, the link on our new building is on our web site.

No, it ISN'T finishing on October. :( Hey, maybe you could take our monies for the building away. ;)

:rolleyes:

http://www.dade.k12.fl.us/shenandoah/news.html


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There are plenty of schools functioning wonderfully.

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Few of them within the United States, according to standardized tests.
My school is just one example.
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Well, then I would say that yours is one of far too few that are up to snuff.
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Really? Point to more.

More schools?

Simple. Go to:

http://www.dade.k12.fl.us/

Enter the section that gives school web addies. There's also information on there.

We've been doing fine.
So have a lot of ppl.


Look at most inner cities schools.  Look at standardized test scores in the international realm.

We're an innercity school. We just received a 200k grant because we raised our grade up a letter from last year.

That grant will go to overworked teachers(mostly materials).

In fact, NO school in the ENTIRE MDCPSS district got an "F" on the FCAT(our test) in 2001.

<Casanova Frankenstein>Did you know that? </Cas.Frank.>

It was in the Herald...first page.

Only 10% got D's.

Everyone else got C's or better.

But, hey, trash schools you don't know anything about.


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Then, tell me how this is supposed to be done, when salaries are poor. Tell me how technology is to be implemented when any tech can make twice that much anywhere else.

Salaries for teachers aren't going to get any better from spending millions on laptops.  

They aren't going to get any better, period. So why lose the money?


Techs are expensive.  Adding personal laptops like what they did in Henrico County in Virginia only makes the need for expensive technical staff worse by vastly increasing the infrastructure.

Can't argue with that. Although, one tech wouldn't be too expensive. Not for the benefits you'd be getting.


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And I don't think you are trying to give every kid a laptop either to the tune of millions of dollars.
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A laptop *was* ambitious and I don't agree with take-home machines, *BUT* until I see conclusive evidence(not paranoid parental ravings) of failure to the otherwise, I'd just as well like to keep an open mind, thank you.

In my experiance, having an open mind about people throwing millions of dollars at a problem haphazardly is a bad thing.

That's just it, though. You really don't know if it has been "haphazardly" thrown. You've read one biased article. Heard some obviously tech-ignorant parents and teachers balk and you've heard prowler prognosticate.

Obviously there've been problems. Is there evidence indicating that they can't be solved? No.

Chill out and see what happens.


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However, If one tried to replace a crowded building with a new/larger one, that OTOH would be fine by me.
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And both would be wrong.

By your own admission, you are against building more schools and would have students learn in overcrowded and facilities.

Oh God no! I definitely agree with you there.

My smallest class is 37. I only have 33-36 seats(depending on what you consider a seat...*shudder*).

Our school is built for a 1000 capacity. Our enrollment is almost 1700.

Especially in Miami, where we have such uncontrolled immigration.

Still, I'm simply saying we can and *should* have both.


Either that or you misunderstood what I said.

I guess I must have.


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Same thing for raising money for band instruments, or an adequate computer Lab, or busing systems even, but not for a useless jesture of a show of technology.
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Gesture?

A computer lab is inefficient because we're not adding technology for technologies sake.

Adding technology for technologies sake is the wrong thing to do.

Good, we agree.



Quote: The entire purpose of adding technology to a classroom is *primarily* to assist in the curriculum you so vehemently indicate is insufficient.

I have no problem with an adequate measure of technology.  To be sure, equipping each student with a computer is far beyond "adequate".

Again, is it a computer only for school? If so, that'd be great. Can they take it home? Hmmmm. I don't think so. Not everyone, anyways. And DEFinitely not wiout some serious deposit and infrastructure( to replace the machine and prevent downtime for the kid).

As for the curriculum, there was a time that this countries students did better without the toys.

This is a misconception held by many. Test scores were better proportionally for various reasons:

Here are a couple in *my* school alone.

A. The FCAT and state govt' sponsored tests are actually re-convered exams for gifted children. GTU programs were scrapped and their tests were converted to the FCAT.  I *honestly* think most Arsers would have a hard time wi it. prowler certainly would. ;)

B. State govt' precludes any immigrant from being exempt from the FCAT, regardless of the child's ESOL(english mastery level) or his/her arrival in the country.

C. FCAT mathematics is responsible for trigonometric, geometric and secondary algebra material.

I don't know if you're aware but state tests in Fl, prior to 1969, did NOT contain such material. Ditto for English components. Children today simply have to know more.

D. Grading scale is far more difficult. Portions of the FCAT require 75% passing. No test prior to this in the history of Fl has ever required such rates.

E. FCAT tests must be passed in order to procede to next year of academic work. That wasn't the case in Fl, prior to '69.

Just thought you'd like to know.

It's imp. that you're informed. So here's some information.


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We're out to teach math and science...not VB. This argument, which you and I *keep* having is troubling because you obviously don't work in a pre-college educational environment.

math and science.  That's what I want more of.

Then you'll agree that computers are used for modelling, analysis and data collection in EVERY organization on earth.... Why not schools? SECME(FL English and Math teachers) think computers can help. They've used empirical evidence for improved funding....

I guess *something* must be there.


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On the contrary. Technology as a component of education is important.
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Merely a component? Yes. However, the case we are discussing makes technology hardly a mere "component", rather they've made it unnessecarily pervasive.
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No, no we haven't. A computer can be a tool every bit as useful and "pervasive" as a pencil.

Except pencils are cheap and cheap to operate.

Pencils also can't surf the web, assist in data analysis. Provide resources that a computer can.


And I never said "get rid of all computers", just all those stupid laptops.

No. I don't think it's proven to be a failure yet.

Now, should Henrico and others definitely investigate the laptop fiasco and learn from it? Even mitigate new rollouts until they've got their act t'gether?

In that we are in agreement.


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No. It's trying to facillitate a problem. If land purchase budgets are limited by the state, what else are you going to spend the money on? Much of the money given can *only* be used on technology. Besides, if this little experiment had been a rousing success, I doubt we'd hear anyone complaining.
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Dude, that's fusked up.

Welcome to the wonderful world of teaching. :rolleyes:

Over here in local school systems are having a hard time finding funding for a much needed new building and an expansion to the High School. If one really cared about kids, would it not be better to send us the money over here to cover basic facilities than waste in on personal laptops?

I still don't understand why we can't have both?


You have a reading/comprehension problem.

Well, I guess it's a good thing I work in a school then... Maybe they can help me wi that? ;)


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The problem we have here is that a college tech is trying to speak for teachers in the trenches.

If I were to counter with something equally inane, I'd say that teachers have their own heds buried in said trenches to so far that they cannot correctly gauge the scale and nature of the war.

Yeah!

When you're finding out about what to fix in a race car, don't ask the driver.

Want to change the pace of a war? Don't ask the infantry.

You get the idea....

You're missing the point. A teacher is better equipped and more knowledgeable in this discussion. It's like a chat between a dentist and a coder. Both are giving about ideas concerning MS. Both have a right. Both may have good ideas. One has a better handle on what's going on.


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You have no breathe for the situation.

I do to, you OTOH are ignoring obvious economic repercussions that must come into consideration on the topic os school funding.

If only I could ignore them.



Technology isn't going to change that.

Alone? No. Technology can't do *anything* alone. But implemented intelligently and carefully, it can be a powerful(and already proven: effective) weapon in swaying kids' minds from other more dangerous pasttimes and vices....


Please respond cordially.

Thanks.

Always. And You're welcome.

M.

Madan

Tue Oct 2 22:23:58 2001

:spank:

COOOOOOL! ;)

M.

DrPizza

Wed Oct 3 02:58:36 2001

I have to say, it struck me as retarded to spend $19m on such luxuries as equipping students with laptops and whatnot.

It would be a damn sight cheaper to give them all a pencil and some paper and make them write by hand.

And it's a skill that's certainly more useful.

DuffMan

Wed Oct 3 03:20:04 2001

Madan is my hero.
AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 03:28:26 2001

I don't think Madan particularily supports the laptop idea.

I may be a bit more enthused about e-books, however.  If they are tied to the desks.

HitScan

Wed Oct 3 03:54:51 2001


I may be a bit more enthused about e-books, however.  If they are tied to the desks.

I can't understand these things. I personally don't like reading all that much info from a computer screen. Computers are great because you can go from one piece of text to another nigh-instantly, but for something linear like a book, I prefer deadwood.
OscarWilde

Wed Oct 3 04:00:03 2001

has anyone actually read AYB's really long post?

hitscan, i agree with ya 100%... the only way to read a book is with a book. Hardcore paper and none of that weenie screenie stuff. Books are also much more fun because you can sit in any position and read it. You and be in your bed an read a book. Plus you can carry a book around with you on the road.
Palm or Visor are just sucktacular for reading books cause the screen is small, plus you gotta scroll through pages which kinda breaks with the continutiy you get with just flipping pages.
The other thing is that it adds little meaning if you say a book is a page turner but all you're really doing is scrolling down.

what the hell am i going on about?

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 04:05:57 2001

has anyone actually read AYB's really long post?

I most certainly haven't ;)

Riso

Wed Oct 3 13:43:14 2001

from OscarWilde posted at 6:00 am on Oct. 3, 2001

has anyone actually read AYB's really long post?

'course not!


hitscan, i agree with ya 100%... the only way to read a book is with a book. Hardcore paper and none of that weenie screenie stuff. Books are also much more fun because you can sit in any position and read it. You and be in your bed an read a book. Plus you can carry a book around with you on the road.
Palm or Visor are just sucktacular for reading books cause the screen is small, plus you gotta scroll through pages which kinda breaks with the continutiy you get with just flipping pages.
The other thing is that it adds little meaning if you say a book is a page turner but all you're really doing is scrolling down.

I agree with his whole paragraph.
Nothing to add.

HitScan

Wed Oct 3 15:36:57 2001

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say this is one long ass first page for a thread. And on that subject, I'd like to do my part.


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hehe.

(Edited by HitScan at 8:37 am on Oct. 3, 2001)

Riso

Wed Oct 3 16:19:02 2001

from HitScan posted at 5:36 pm on Oct. 3, 2001

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say this is one long ass first page for a thread. And on that subject, I'd like to do my part.


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hehe.

(Edited by HitScan at 8:37 am on Oct. 3, 2001)

I could do the same without the edit. HA! :bootyshake:

HitScan

Wed Oct 3 16:32:24 2001

Only if you remembered the comma! Ha, HA! ;)
Madan

Wed Oct 3 20:28:25 2001


By the Power of Greyskull!            
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't think Madan particularily supports the laptop idea.

I may be a bit more enthused about e-books, however.  If they are tied to the desks.

Gee, thanks AY, for putting words in my mouth.

But that's not what I meant. What I meant was, investigating the network and seeing whether it can work successfully(and realistically) has yet to be determined. When, and IF, that result indicates "no", then I'll agree to laptop nono.

I DID say I was predisposed against it. I don't think most kids are mature enough for such a program.

 


Quote:
I may be a bit more enthused about e-books, however.  If they are tied to the desks.


I can't understand these things. I personally don't like reading all that much info from a computer screen. Computers are great because you can go from one piece of text to another nigh-instantly, but for something linear like a book, I prefer deadwood.

You missed the entire point of ebooks.

Ebooks are interactive. That's not "block text".

Ebooks employ "best of breed". Chapters from various books, depending on the way the material is described.

That, also, isn't "block of text".

An ebook is lighter, allows for wireless exchange of data AND holds hundreds of times more books.

It also holds analytical and work software.

Everyone keeps mentioning how great the "pencil" is. The pencil isn't what makes a student great. Focus and discipline are what make a student great.

A pencil is just a tool.

If a pencil was *soooo* great, major companies would have their employees write out reports and word processing would be outlawed in universities.

You guys are, imo, confusing ideology with a tool.


OscarWilde

hitscan, i agree with ya 100%... the only way to read a book is with a book. Hardcore paper and none of that weenie screenie stuff. Books are also much more fun because you can sit in any position and read it. You and be in your bed an read a book. Plus you can carry a book around with you on the road.

A. An ebook is lighter and smaller than a book. An ebook allows you to put information wiout flipping madly through pages. You can carry a thousand books in a PAD and it'd be lighter than a regular book.

Moreso, a book can't interact with you like an ebook PAD can.


Palm or Visor are just sucktacular for reading books cause the screen is small, plus you gotta scroll through pages which kinda breaks with the continutiy you get with just flipping pages.

Again, this is subjective and totally misses the dozen points I've listed so far.


The other thing is that it adds little meaning if you say a book is a page turner but all you're really doing is scrolling down.

what the hell am i going on about?

I have no clue but, God, PLEASE someone ban prowler.

I think I'm going to go nuts. He's going on and on with SO much crap in Ars.

I'm freaking losing my cool.

M.


AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 20:53:17 2001

But that's not what I meant. What I meant was, investigating the network and seeing whether it can work successfully(and realistically) has yet to be determined. When, and IF, that result indicates "no", then I'll agree to laptop nono.

I'm sure it can be done.  It doesn't appear like this district in Virginia is doing anything that isn't feasable and prolly has been done in a corperate environment.

But then again, it will come down to resources:  Competent Managers and Admins, equipment, training who's costs are sure to balloon.

Gee, thanks AY, for putting words in my mouth.

I wish Katie Holmes would put something in my mouth :(

Madan

Wed Oct 3 20:56:18 2001

Make yourself useful nerd-boy.

Why does W3C.org's validator give me a "TYPE" missing error in the following statement:

<script language="text/JavaScript">

????

M.

HitScan

Wed Oct 3 21:11:23 2001

Make yourself useful nerd-boy.

Why does W3C.org's validator give me a "TYPE" missing error in the following statement:

<script language="text/JavaScript">

????

M.

I'm no AYB, but you did call on Nerd Boy (TM), so here's your answer, pulled straight from the helpful guys at [url=http://www.devguru.com/]Devguru[/url].


language    [color=red]deprecated 4.0[/color]
The language attribute is the name of the script language, such as VBScript, JavaScript, JavaScript 1.1, and JavaScript 1.2. This attribute is deprecated effective with version 4.0. You are now to use the type attribute. However, most browsers continue to recognize this attribute.

So, what w3c would like to see is
<script type="text/JavaScript"> I believe.

Madan

Wed Oct 3 21:22:30 2001

Thanks Hit. :)

M.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 21:24:04 2001

Before you read Prowlers latest post Madan.

Please sit down, listen to some Enya, and take some serious booze.

His latest words are none to kindly and we don't want an exploded madan on our hands :(

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 21:25:32 2001

BTW,

I don't know much about java.

Madan

Wed Oct 3 21:29:48 2001

JavaScript <> Java.

Don't worry AYB, you'll get your chance to tell me to go to hell, when I try and set up my Win2k server a year from now.

;)

M.

Madan

Wed Oct 3 21:57:19 2001

Thanks for the warning AY.

Relax, I'm fine. That article is THREE years old.

I was barely working there during the time it was taken. I think it was given 2 months after I arrived.

A. The schools tested aren't equivalent. Again, because ESOL levels are tested and included in some and not in others.

MDCPSS actually includes a student from, say, Nicaragua, despite the fact he came from there less than a month ago!

Moreso, the tests compared are all different. FCAT, CCAT, CAT are all tests from different states. All built off of different curriculum and all built off of different test bases, by various companies.

I'm not terribly worried. If I was, I'd have cursed him.

Besides, we went up one grade level last year, and I'm expecting another one this year.

Yah baby...pH34r /\/\3!

;)

M.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Oct 3 23:01:45 2001

JavaScript <> Java.

See how much I know. :)