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Thread #: 1955

A man's gotta know his limitations...

Madan

Sun Jun 9 05:46:19 2002

Well, this situation looks like the "end of the road". It's been a year on OSY and I'd like to think that it was time well-spent.  I'm not going to exit this board with a sob story and this isn't a desperate attempt at getting attention or calls for reconsideration.  It truly is time for me to leave this board.

This post isn't about my departure, however, but rather a fleeting commentary on the social dynamics of this board and Ars Technica.  I felt driven to comment on two very disturbing factors transpiring.  The first, which is comprised of Ars & OSY's increasingly confrontational atmospheres has crushed the fun out of the online discussion forums for me.  Shouts of expletives and curses abound on both boards and I, for far too long, have personally participated in that *futile* and demeaning behavior.  I'm honestly not quite sure if the origin of such behavior was directly attributable to the prevalence of such comportment on Ars or the slow unraveling of what little patience I had left.  I 'm sure that I didn't behave this way before Ars.

You could say that Ars and, to a lesser degree OSY, are having deleterious effects on me.  It just isn't healthy to behave as most of us do and I'm not excusing myself.  I should have had more sense.  Most of us should have.  So effectively, the first issue of contention is the souring effects these boards have had on me.  To which I hear alike comments made by Jeremy and Steven echo within my mind:

"Don't take things so personally."

AND

"Relax, it's only a computer platform."

Unfortunately, I *have* taken barbs personally.  And why shouldn't I or anyone else for that matter?  Direct attacks on one's intelligence, abilities, tastes and even family are common on Ars and not unheard of on OSY.  Worse still, in Ars "arrows" about one's career and professionalism whiz through the air with sickening frequency.  I've yet to resort to such attacks but I fear it would have been only a matter of time as other users continue to employ brutally underhanded and unregulated tactics.  Of course, there's always the unecessary back biting, alliances and forced moderator intervention.  And for a precious handful, there's always those attacks that smack of brazen illegality.  Email threats and server attacks are just some of the hazards faced by a few, at the hands of individuals that lack the understanding of the concept "going too far".

"Just a platform" indeed. :/

Ultimately, I blame noone else but myself for my behavior or deterioration thereof.

The second issue that I find a patchwork of quizzical fright and wanton disgust is the shocking parallel I see between the "Forum Warriors" page posted recently on here and Ars/OSY.  It's almost like a dark joke. Succinctly, I see the implied constraints of an invisible society, a heirarchy if you will, that I no longer wish to take part in.  Why? Have I tired of the system or my place within it? Probably both.
In this societal overlay, several individuals, whether by established knowledge, popularity or verbal brutality have established a mechanism where their word isn't questioned. Isn't examined.  Isn't weighed against the comments of others.  Their word is simply accepted as gospel.  Right or wrong.  This is dangerous.

At the polar end of the spectrum, I see individuals professing absurdities as a means of establishing their own "digital feifdoms".  These misfits, often Mac and Nix users, employ guerilla tactics.  Starting 4+ acounts, all the while being generally venemous, annoying and brimming with ill-will.  I particpated in this asinine "game" and am sorry for it.  I no longer seek anyone's approval online. I'm cured of that malady.  What I find similarly stupifying are the similarties between the laws on that site's parody and these boards.  I can honestly understand how individuals wind up savages frothing at the mouth when the 12 Commandments of the BF are:

I. The number of posts in your account == quality of the poster.

II. Experience matters  not. Education even less. White paper is everything.

III. Any problems that happen to your opponent but not to you, should be considered PEBCAK.

IV. If an opposing technology can compete with your preferred platform, omit his/her's features. If an opponent brings said features to your attention, continue to ignore them anyways.  

V. If you lose an argument in one field, you must automatically lose them in all fields, as such you know nothing.

VI. You're only wrong if you admit it.

VII. Majority rules.... even if the majority is wrong.

VIII. If you don't have a an argument, use satire, insults, semantics, obfuscation or misrepresentation.

IX. A technological feature only matters if it's important to *you*.

X. Who you are is more important than what you say.

XI. You will seem funny and cool if you are excessively rude and abusive.

XII. Propaganda is a useful tool.

Of course, the rules above are only the shortened version but I've had my fill.  Many of you will argue that the purpose of Ars BF  is such behavior.  Some of you might sugar coat the chaos by referring to it as something romantic, such as "verbal jousting".  Others might flatly state that I've simply lost my stomach.  Perhaps I have but that is only because BF is futile and pointless.  It is nothing like a debate.  There are no rules and certainly, no clear victor, as some opponents never admit defeat.

In hindsight, my attempts at "playing the game" are particularly embarrassing.  In any case, I blame no one group or platform for such misbehavior, although some groups are obviously more ignorant or abusive than others.  Mac, Windows and Nix users were all participants in this sad affair.  I think there aren't many users on either board that can honestly state that I've been platform rabid, however.  I've always been one of the most impartial posters, imo, finding praise for all platforms on many occasions.  I honestly think that impartiality compounds my negative experience on BF/OSY.  While extremists become biased to a sickeningly hardened degree, those few of us that tried to "sit on the fence" were better gored by the profusion of blindingly ignorant comments.

The result, in retrospect, would explain my rollercoaster attempts at civility and public oaths to remain impartial and rational, intermixed with patches of zealotry as others got the best of me.  In the end, I truly wonder if some of the rabid zealots truly believe their propaganda or if such lies are simply "part of the script".

Before I go, however, I do have one request.  remember that the content of someone's message is more important than the originator.  Read each post as if it were anonymous.  Resist the temptation to go with neither the "establishment" nor the "long shot".  Many a times I've seen RR post something intelligent only to be buried by an avalanche of snide remarks, for no other reason than because the post originated from him.

This simply shouldn't be.

In the end, OSY is fundamentally different from BF but I've seen rumblings here that indicate that in two or three years, this could be a small BF. I hope this isn't so. The people here are generally cut of better cloth and I hope that they can continue to keep OSY different.

Jeremy, I'd like to thank you for being as impartial as you are.  I know you try very hard at being unbiased and it's not always easy.  Thanks for covering for me on Ars those couple of times and know that I did the same for you when you left BF temporarily.

Harb, thanks for all the tech help.  Maybe some day I'll actually use your tip and get that lappie networked. ;)

Paolo, the adoption papers should arrive by snail mail soon.

AYB, you're the best.

Keep the tab running on the "muahahahahas" folks. OW always seemed fond of it and they belong to him now.

But don't despair, you can always reach me via email at:

i__love__joe@yahoo.com

OR

QtPCDenizen@aol.com

And no doubt I'll be around in Software Colloquium. A board where the madness of Ars has not breached.

Finally, I recognize that some posters may feel the need to speak out for the system either to protect their perceived "place" or to make a name for themself by "acting cool".  Heaven knows how quickly one can fall from grace if you completely shy away from insults(MWNH: 2000-Hero 2002-Zero). In such a case, have at it.

And who knows maybe someday a few years down the line, if Jeremy's lil' haven is still operational, I might chime in, for a hello.

It's been a blast. Muahahahahaha!

Ciao,

Joe.
(madan)

(Edited by Madan at 10:59 pm on June 8, 2002)

DeAthe

Sun Jun 9 06:53:29 2002

have fun mang.
DrPizza

Sun Jun 9 07:21:34 2002

I can't be fucked to read that shit.  Can someone paraphrase?
DeAthe

Sun Jun 9 07:24:13 2002

I think he's leaving. I didn't read it all either, but then again, I don't come here to argue... so....

--- as I think about your comment 'can't be fucked to read that shit' Do you mean you'd rather not fuck than have to read that shit? Or, it is so distasteful to you that you'd rather give up a good fuck than be forced to read it?

Anyway, Mad, yea, people suck, there are 'tarded ego's on the net, but shit... have fun either way.

(Edited by DeAthe at 12:30 am on June 9, 2002)

Imitation Gruel

Sun Jun 9 08:15:27 2002

Madan, if it makes you feel any better, I've cut my Ars reading time at least 90%, just because I feel the Battlefront sucks and I only really read one other forum on Ars. I've lost interest in all but the CPU&MT forum, and I rarely read it.

I wish you luck if this means you're leaving OSY. It's been fun.

Best wishes in all your endeavors.

OscarWilde

Sun Jun 9 10:45:26 2002

I'm not going to exit this board with a sob story and this isn't a desperate attempt at getting attention or calls for reconsideration.

dood, there is no shame in wanting attention and getting calls for reconsideration. The frail ego lives on the dishes of superfical compliments.

Anywhoooo....

i sorta agree, visiting this forums and also replying or starting threads can become a bad habit, especially when one could spend more time appreciating the whorniness of one self when left with the latest issue of "Trollboy" and lubirciants that claim to "be like the real thing(tm)".

Well i must head of to get prepared for my misadventures in Los Ang-a-lees. I shall troll hollywood like no other before me and leave a standard so high that future generations of trolls will only be left in depressing awe at the heights i have left to reach to be one with the mighty and illustrious poopy headed troll!!!!!

/muahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! -as madan has departed i lay claim to 'muahahahahahaha' and have increased the usage tax from 0.02cents to 2dollars a letter credited to my accout.

I will be rich!!!!!

ph34r m3!!!!!!!!


MUAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!! (tm) (registered trademark of OWilde96, the illustrious poopy head).

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Sun Jun 9 11:05:38 2002

I can't be fucked to read that shit.  Can someone paraphrase?

Too bad, it's well written and articulate, however saddening the content is. :(

We Lubs you Mad!

;_;

please come back when you feel better, even though you may swear now that you won't do so, you know you need us!

Magus

Sun Jun 9 19:03:54 2002

Damn, we're losing people right, left, and sideways. I hope you'll be back; I'll be waiting on you man.
Jeremy Reimer

Sun Jun 9 21:18:40 2002

Madan, that was an excellent post.  One of your best, and spot-on in the analysis of the Battlefront and internet discussion forums in general.

The thing is, I get emotionally involved too.  When treatment posted his pathetic spew of ad-homs, when the Penguins were attacking my very honesty instead of attacking my opinions, I got a little hot and bothered.  And in my worst days back when I was "working" for EA, when I had dozens of posts every day, I got quite involved with the art of the flamefest.

The thing is, though, that you have to recognize it for what it is.  The very name "Battlefront" recognizes that in a digital discussion group focussed exclusively on geeks and their toys, there will be heated arguments.  There will be name-calling.  I don't know why this happens, but it does.

The reason I keep going back to the BF is that on some level I enjoy the sparring. I don't like it when it gets personal, or when people talk about people's "real world" experience or situation.  When pdampier attacked John Campbell for "living in his grandmother's basement" that really annoyed the shit out of me, not just because it was unwarranted, but because I was already handling the little shit (John) quite adequately without the need to resort to any name calling (Saying "The Mighty John Campbell" was all I ever stooped to)

But when pdampier stepped in, playing the "Me-too" role to my "Big Dog", it ruined the whole dynamic of the argument and gave the whole thread a sour feel, at least to me.  I wish John would come back so I could smack him around a bit more in a pdampier-free thread.  (And pdampier, you are welcome to join in this thread if you want, I'm not all that upset, just expressing my feelings)

I, like Digital Fury, like a little "smackdown" now and then (astute Baldrick readers will notice that I lambasted DF for liking the same thing-- there was no hypocrisy at all, however, as the BF environment encourages that kind of "sideways assault")

What I would really like the "Lord Baldrick" character to become, over time, is a real "Kung-Fu Warrior" as described on the Flame Warriors site... one who does not attack unprovoked, prefers not to attack at all, but when he does attack, does so unmercilessly and with devastating results.  PeterB is one such character (but he's also more "Royalty" as well) and Digital Fury is another-- I really respect the guy even though I disagree with him on many fundamental issues.

Is it silly?  Yes.  Is it pointless? Perhaps.  But I enjoy it, and I am sensible enough to completely divorce my real world life (which, as I've mentioned, is pretty yummy these days) from the virtual life I spend now and then on the Battlefront and at OSY.

Madan, if you made any mistake, it was taking your Battlefront persona with you when you came here.  There shouldn't be any need to be argumentative or "Flame Warrior"-like at OSY-- we are all just a bunch of silly people being silly in a silly place, and that's the way I want it to stay.  "DrPizza" does engage in some pretty biting smack-fu here now and then, but I think the main problem is not him, or anyone else on OSY-- I think you tend to get overly defensive (perhaps this is understandable given what's happened to you on the BF)

Being overly defensive is fine, but you can't cling on to arguments so tightly.  If you're wrong about, say, Win2k's memory protection or ASP server-side scripting, just let it go.  It's just a technical argument... really, it's not that important.  I hate to keep saying this again and again, but it isn't.

Lastly, the other reason for your being burned out online is quite simple: you are burning out in real life.

Take a vacation.  Take a rest.  Do something other than pushing yourself constantly without remittance.  Yes, we all need/want money and the supposed security that brings, but it's hardly worth it if your work schedule is hazardous to your health, and I'm pretty sure that is the case here.

YOU WORK TWO+ JOBS.  One of them is teaching, perhaps the toughest, most thankless job in the history of humanity (I know; I've been there)

Anyway, I'll end this here, I might take some of this to email later.

Please come back.  Whenever you're ready.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Sun Jun 9 23:53:58 2002

Is it silly?  Yes.  Is it pointless? Perhaps.  But I enjoy it, and I am sensible enough to completely divorce my real world life (which, as I've mentioned, is pretty yummy these days) from the virtual life I spend now and then on the Battlefront and at OSY.

I don't, this is me :)

aint I lovely?

Evil Merlin

Mon Jun 10 10:27:22 2002

 But I enjoy it, and I am sensible enough to completely divorce my real world life (which, as I've mentioned, is pretty yummy these days) from the virtual life I spend now and then on the Battlefront and at OSY.

Oh this fits me so well...

I love it when people meet me in real life... I am SO not what they expect...

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Mon Jun 10 17:05:15 2002

I love it when people meet me in real life... I am SO not what they expect...

Well mannered? :cheesy:

Evil Merlin

Mon Jun 10 17:24:58 2002

Well that for one...

=)

Magus

Mon Jun 10 18:33:43 2002

Hehe, and I doubt you throw "fucktard" around IRL. :)
DrPizza

Mon Jun 10 19:10:12 2002

Oh, he's leaving?

No loss.

Evil Merlin

Mon Jun 10 19:18:19 2002

Magus, actually when I am in meetings with the fucking Solaris dorks here who keep insisting that Exchange 2000 cannot do what Sendmail can, I use it quite frequently as I school the fuckers in Exchange-foo.
Magus

Mon Jun 10 21:08:23 2002

But EM, Exchange can't do what Sendmail can do:
Have a damn root exploit for God knows how many versions. :biggrin:
OscarWilde

Tue Jun 11 02:55:11 2002

Madan, i finally read your post. You just wrote in a more elaquant(sp?) manner (and with better spelling as i myself am to lazy to get a dictionary) a conclusion i came to realise a long time ago. Except that I stopped my self right at the begining of the the downward slope of mundane juvenille and inane discussions on the BF and for the most part on OSY.

As fun and silly as OSY may be, i find that even OSY has little benifit overall. Its too easy to get away with things here and then get a pat on the back for brilliant post of silliness.

I prefer silliness that masks a deeper and more profound comment on a topic being discussed. Satire is a great way to inforce propaganda and even better to subtly implant an idea in the mind of those who are intellectually idle.

anyway... i've been switching back and forth between different forums and irc while writing this. Now i have lost my train of thought on what i had planned to write here.

regardless, i believe i have made my point, or rather Madan did and i just agreed with it.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Jun 11 03:22:22 2002

As fun and silly as OSY may be, i find that even OSY has little benifit overall. Its too easy to get away with things here and then get a pat on the back for brilliant post of silliness.

What's wrong with that? :confused:

DeAthe

Tue Jun 11 03:45:18 2002

from Evil Merlin posted at 3:27 am on June 10, 2002

Oh this fits me so well...

I love it when people meet me in real life... I am SO not what they expect...

A 70 year old Asian Transvestite?

Jeremy Reimer

Tue Jun 11 05:26:13 2002


As fun and silly as OSY may be, i find that even OSY has little benifit overall. Its too easy to get away with things here and then get a pat on the back for brilliant post of silliness.

OW, remember that OSY, like anything else in life, is what you make of it.

As a prominent member on a small forum, you have the chance of having a far bigger impact here than you would anywhere else.

Worth thinking about.

Evil Merlin

Tue Jun 11 11:24:15 2002

DeAthe,

Nah, a 170lb, 5'10" long haired, martial artist with an evil looking goatee.

HitScan

Tue Jun 11 12:14:58 2002

170lb, 5'10"

Wow. E_M is teh small. ;)
Were it not for the martial arts goodness, I'd say "Hehehe!" But I digress... :D
DrPizza

Tue Jun 11 17:38:21 2002

You're no way 5'10".

Surely no.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Tue Jun 11 18:07:34 2002

As a prominent member on a small forum, you have the chance of having a far bigger impact here than you would anywhere else.

This is soooo true.

It's why I like this place. and as head postwhore I probably have had the most influence on the timbre of this forum.


Oh God!  What have I done?

Magus

Tue Jun 11 18:11:45 2002

from Jeremy Reimer posted at 12:26 am on June 11, 2002

[As a prominent member on a small forum, you have the chance of having a far bigger impact here than you would anywhere else.
I would ask Madan and OW to both consider this.
DeAthe

Wed Jun 12 03:34:06 2002

from Evil Merlin posted at 4:24 am on June 11, 2002

DeAthe,

Nah, a 170lb, 5'10" long haired, martial artist with an evil looking goatee.

Ahh, there you go ruining my fantasy, :) I had really thought it was a funny joke. :(

Yea, not a lot of people would picture me as a 30 yeard old clean cut auto technician ( not just mechanics anymore I guess )....