Tue Mar 5 01:06:40 2002
So what did I do?
I grabbed a copy of OPENSTEP 4.2 (the last version of the NeXT operating system for x86 PCs) off a link I got from ars technica, beat myself senseless figuring out how to get the image onto a proper CD (it was a BIN inside an ISO, and it took about three pieces of burning software to get that puppy extracted) Then I had to search the Internet for the Hidden Links at Apple That Are No Longer Supposed To Exist But Do in order to get the boot floppy and driver floppies...
Anyway, I'm not sure why I was so excited, but when I saw that Next Mach OS Installer window come up, I was giddly like a little child.
(Thank Getu for removable hard drives, as I would hate to try and triple-boot this thing!)
Anyway, when I left work it was still installing. I can't wait to go in tomorrow. My very own NeXT box! And it's even BLACK! Heh...
Tue Mar 5 02:01:21 2002
What manner of hardware does Openstep support? If it will handle anything I have then I'd pay for shipping for some copies of NeXT goodness. (As a matter of fact, I need to get my ass on the phone, because I believe a library patron has gotten ahold of several NeXT boxes when IU surplussed a ton of them. I'll try to get as many as possible anyway, so if you really want some nostagia, let me know ;) )
Tue Mar 5 02:09:54 2002
If you want, you can download the CDs from here, this is where I found it.
[url]http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=8300945231&m=7210979843[/url]
Tue Mar 5 16:33:24 2002
But yes that is quite nifty.
Tue Mar 5 19:38:07 2002
There are apparently a bunch of extra driver disks on Apple's website (the unlinked ones.. you can't get to them directly) so I've grabbed those. WAY COOL MAN!
I'm re-reading Steve Jobs and the NeXT Big Thing which chronicles the rise and fall of NeXT, and is particularly harsh on Jobs, but is a fascinating read. I'll keep you updated!
Tue Mar 5 20:23:45 2002
If I were to successfully install it on some box, would that make me more l337 than you? :biggrin:
Tue Mar 5 20:47:08 2002
But that's just me. :)
M.
Tue Mar 5 22:15:35 2002
The whole story of NeXT is like.. damn the rest of the world! Damn compatibility, damn Windows, damn MacOS, we're different, we're better, and we're going to be so different and so many orders of magnitude better that the world will be forced to bow down before us!
Of course, it didn't exactly work out that way...
UPDATE on my progress... I really borked the install, I think by selecting an inappropriate display driver (generic SVGA, should have worked, but didn't) and then it hung after the opening screen... maybe it was still operating, because CAPS LOCK still worked, but there was no HD activity. So I hit the hard reset button, but that fux0red it up even more, at the next boot it had to do a manual fsck, and every single inode was borked, so rather than manually repairing it, I'm reinstalling. I'll let you know. Some of the lustre and magic is fading away, but if I get this thing working, it'll be back, I just know it.
Wed Mar 6 01:07:18 2002
Wed Mar 6 02:28:18 2002
I played around with it a bit. It's basically unuseable in that resolution, so if I can't get a better driver, I'm dropping the whole thing.
BTW I checked out an iBook at London Drugs today... I'm torn between the idea of having a laptop versus the idea of having the money that would go to buying the laptop. I wish I had more money. <sigh>
Wed Mar 6 06:46:46 2002
And, contrary to popular belief, some laptop components are upgradeable. I am looking into upgrading my 500 mhz Cele2 to a 1.06 ghz Cele2, for 125.00 :)
You'd love having one.. I do.
Wed Mar 6 06:47:55 2002
Wed Mar 6 14:45:37 2002
from DeAthe posted at 1:46 am on Mar. 6, 2002
And, contrary to popular belief, some laptop components are upgradeable. I am looking into upgrading my 500 mhz Cele2 to a 1.06 ghz Cele2, for 125.00 :)
What you say!! Lemme know how this can be done, cuz I have a Celly 300 that's long in the tooth. ;)
Wed Mar 6 20:13:03 2002
I found a disk with extra display drivers, including the ATI Rage, and installing it was so easy, double-dick on the driver, it opens up the config control panel, select the driver, select resolution, etc, done! But it did have to reboot which was kind of lame. But still!
Anyway, NeXTstep/Openstep at 1024x768x32bit is SCHWEET!!! Now the next step (heh) is to get networking working... but there are NO DRIVERS for my Realtek 8139 network card... argh... I tried scrounging around for other network cards, but to no avail. I found one but it used the same chipset... sigh... sux0rs. Anyway without networking it is kind of useless, so if I can't find a driver or a replacement ethernet card, it's getting junked.
Also the system is Y2k incompatible, there is a patch, but I haven't applied it yet. Networking is more important.
The OS itself is a thing of beauty.
Wed Mar 6 20:56:16 2002
Wed Mar 6 21:43:13 2002
Wed Mar 6 21:45:00 2002
including the ATI Rage
Wed Mar 6 22:17:59 2002
Thu Mar 7 01:22:47 2002
I found a GOOD Ethernet card, actually a ripoff of one from the Phillipines, but a clone of the Intel Pro/100+, which NeXTstep/Openstep had native drivers for!! Autodetected and loaded, bay-bee!
But, once I got it installed, I got stuck. I couldn't find the network settings/TCP/IP panel. And no built in web browser! For shame! (Incidentally the very first web browser ever was written on a NeXT machine)
Er... did a Google search. I did find the right control panel, just didn't set it up properly, and adding DNS server info involves editing a text file (boo!) And now work is over and I'm home.. next two days are holidays... so... no more NeXT until Monday!
(I think it would blow people away if I was able to do all my work on NeXTstep... heh)
Thu Mar 7 05:19:30 2002
from DeAthe posted at 5:17 pm on Mar. 6, 2002
Harb: I found the mobile procs at gateways store for dirt cheap.
:eek: Didn't know they (GW) sold 'em. But, do you know if the CPU in your laptop is swappable? I have a suspicion that mine's soldered.
Thu Mar 7 05:50:43 2002
A: Get the data spec sheet on your laptop, see if it's a socket.
B: Open it up and look, they're not horrible to take apart, lots of little pieces you don't want to lose however. And it's quite fun.
What kind of laptop do you have? If you want, I can dig around some and see what I can find.
Thu Mar 7 11:07:56 2002
from Jeremy Reimer posted at 7:22 pm on Mar. 6, 2002
(I think it would blow people away if I was able to do all my work on NeXTstep... heh)
You must, for great justice! Dude that would be sooooo cool. I wish I could get away with trying that where I work.
Thu Mar 7 12:17:48 2002
Eyerggh. Besides, the process sounded like a bitch.
M.
Thu Mar 7 13:48:54 2002
Besides, the process sounded like a bitch.
Thu Mar 7 13:57:13 2002
M.
Thu Mar 7 14:45:51 2002
from DeAthe posted at 12:50 am on Mar. 7, 2002
Harb: Two ways really.A: Get the data spec sheet on your laptop, see if it's a socket.
B: Open it up and look, they're not horrible to take apart, lots of little pieces you don't want to lose however. And it's quite fun.
What kind of laptop do you have? If you want, I can dig around some and see what I can find.
FYI, I have a Toshiba Satellite 4030CDT, about 3 years old now. I can't say I have the original manual handy but, knowing Toshiba, it wouldn't describe how to disassemble it anyway. They're not goot at telling you how to do stuff yerself, instead telling you to see an authorized repair center. I was recently asked to upgrade the HD in a coworker's newer Satellite (a 'home' laptop); it didn't have an obviously-visible door to easily remove the HD, so I presumed that the case must be cracked open or the keyboard removed. I tried cracking the case but couldn't get the entire thing open -- so instead of pushing my luck ;) I called Toshiba's support line. I told the person what I wanted to do, she put me on hold a while, then told me to have an 'authorized center' swap the HD for me. When I pressed for more info, she wouldn't tell me.
I don't doubt that I can get to my Sat's PCB -- there seems to be a plate in front of the keyboard that pops out. I haven't tried it yet. I think the kb might be screwed in from below. If you have any info, I'll gladly accept it.
Thu Mar 7 16:03:57 2002
Thu Mar 7 16:23:40 2002
I started using computers some time during 1994 but I didn't have half a clue, using them, until some time during 1998
Heh. I started using computers earlier than you.
To elaborate: 1986, Apple ][ of some variety. But I didn't really get into actually using computers until the NT4 era. I decided I utterly loathed MacOS pre-X in late-1998, when I decided for myself that MacOS pre-X was broken and NT4 wasn't, despite its limited hardware/software support compared to Win '9x. Then Windows 2000 came out in February of 2000.
Thu Mar 7 17:43:12 2002
You know, I like Jobs and everything but even I wouldn't use NextStep...Eyerggh. Besides, the process sounded like a bitch.
Weirdly enough, the process was actually fun, like going where no (or very few) men have gone before. It was the complete opposite of screwing around with Linux.
The thing about NeXT is that Steve Jobs created a weird, hermetically sealed environment at his company, where he was in total control, all legacy cruft was to be thrown away, and he demanded (to the point of lunacy) total perfection and craftsmanship, to the point of insisting that the internal screws on the computer case had to be plated with a special type of metal to match the inside. Oh, and the case had to be exactly one foot by one foot by one foot, and precisely cubical, and such. Madness.
But the neat thing is that his attitude filtered down into the rank and file, so when they were designing the operating system everything had to be first-rate. Visually it is still stunning-- I find I get more relaxed and feel happier (weird, I know) looking at a NeXT screen than anything Windows or MacOS.
The whole GUI has this insane elegance wrapped up in it, and it's really a shame that Jobs' strangeness meant that he focussed on hardware for too long, instead of trying to sell the OS for cheap to many customers on cheap hardware, like Microsoft. At the time (pre-Windows 95) a new operating system that was that easy to develop for and was that elegant could have really captured the market. Although I suppose at the time the RAM requirements would have been a little high, so it still wouldn't have worked out that well.
Anyway, the visual artistry of the GUI has to be seen to be believed.
Most of my daily work involves email, writing documents, updating the web site via ftp, photo editing, etc. If I could do this all on Openstep that would be so cool.
Anyway, I'm off to look at iBooks again today. Wish me luck.
Thu Mar 7 20:19:38 2002
The rep came in, met with one of our head engineers. It was mostly a closed-door meeting, but I did get to spy the cube and a large monitor (don't recall if Next sold several different monitors or not).
In the end, we ended up not making anything for the Next and instead started making products for x86 boxes. I don't know if our engineer quoted Bill Gates' quote re: Next development. ;) Maybe I'll ask him, since he's still in the area...
Fri Mar 8 08:28:29 2002
Get a nice black NeXT case and stuff a PC board into it!
Sun Mar 10 20:19:35 2002
My openstep download is soon finished.
Sun Mar 10 21:20:40 2002
ftp://ftp.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/MultiCountry/Enterprise/openstep/
From here, go to "drivers" to download drivers, but first you need the boot floppies, so go to "floppyimages", get rawrite.exe to make the images (same tool used for Linux floppies, it's just a raw dump to floppy disk) and grab 4.2_Install_disk and 4.2_Driver_disk. You need both during the install, you can add additional driver disks later.
Have fun!
Sun Mar 10 21:30:51 2002
Maybe the Mystique works out of the box.
Lets see, 5gig Win2k Srv, 5gig FreeBSD, 5 gig NeXT, rest free.
Now that sounds like a tripple boot plan!
Mon Mar 11 18:03:54 2002
I configured the DNS server stuff, which was weird, it was more involving than just setting the IP address, gateway, netmask, there was another weird step to set. Good thing I had the web page to guide me.
Then I realized I needed a browser... so... ftp to ftp.omnigroup.com, cd to software/OPENSTEP, their 3.1 browser for OPENSTEP 4.2 was there, downloaded it, untarred it, then I just double clicked on the .pkg installer and BOOM! I'm surfing BAYBEE!!
Only trouble is our company web page looks a little weird under OW, but if I can fix that, I'm GOLDEN! YEAH!
This totally rocks. I think I'll go on a downloading spree and grab every Openstep application evar made EVAR!!!
Mon Mar 11 18:09:47 2002
Duuude.
DUUUUUUDE!
Mon Mar 11 18:30:47 2002
from Harbinger posted at 6:45 am on Mar. 7, 2002from DeAthe posted at 12:50 am on Mar. 7, 2002
Harb: Two ways really.A: Get the data spec sheet on your laptop, see if it's a socket.
B: Open it up and look, they're not horrible to take apart, lots of little pieces you don't want to lose however. And it's quite fun.
What kind of laptop do you have? If you want, I can dig around some and see what I can find.
FYI, I have a Toshiba Satellite 4030CDT, about 3 years old now. I can't say I have the original manual handy but, knowing Toshiba, it wouldn't describe how to disassemble it anyway. They're not goot at telling you how to do stuff yerself, instead telling you to see an authorized repair center. I was recently asked to upgrade the HD in a coworker's newer Satellite (a 'home' laptop); it didn't have an obviously-visible door to easily remove the HD, so I presumed that the case must be cracked open or the keyboard removed. I tried cracking the case but couldn't get the entire thing open -- so instead of pushing my luck ;) I called Toshiba's support line. I told the person what I wanted to do, she put me on hold a while, then told me to have an 'authorized center' swap the HD for me. When I pressed for more info, she wouldn't tell me.
I don't doubt that I can get to my Sat's PCB -- there seems to be a plate in front of the keyboard that pops out. I haven't tried it yet. I think the kb might be screwed in from below. If you have any info, I'll gladly accept it.
Ok, sorry it took so long for me to get back at you, but I completely missed your reply. On doing a bit of searching for cpu replacement's, I found a description of "TO / Satellite 4030CDT *PCB CPU MODULE, 4030CDS, 300M..." at a 'authorized' toshiba parts reseller. http://www.nationalparts.com/extranet/index.asp?PAGE=proc_sr_model.asp is the link to the company online. The part that's confusing me, is they're calling it a 'pcb cpu module' which would lead me to believe it's on a riser card somehow.
However, I was able to find some info that the Sat 4030, 4060 and 4080 all use the same guts, w/ different LCD / HD sizes. So, that gives up a little more options, but in all of the models available, a 400 p2 is the highest proc I could find.
Your laptop is upgradeable, but because it's most likely *not* a socketed proc it'll be hellishly expensive to upgrade to a 400 p2. An example is just CPU replacement for your laptop is 666.00 ( Ironic that it's the number of the beast eh? )
Wish I could have been more helpful.
Or if those bastards just had a picture I'd be able to tell more.
And I couldn't find a true spec sheet ( system rebuilders/repair guide ) to your laptop, Toshiba hides them even more so than Compaq. I'll ask a buddy of mine ( who owned a 4030 btw ) if he remembers how his proc was attached to it.
-------
More info found.
I found a 400 mhz 'cpu replacement board' for 129.00 at http://www.mytoshiba.com/dcts/product.asp?dept%5Fid=8000&pf%5Fid=P000270360%2DR#
Is 100 mhz worth it? *shrug*
(Edited by DeAthe at 10:36 am on Mar. 11, 2002)
Mon Mar 11 19:39:42 2002
I've also got a graphical FTP client, which I'm not sure I like yet, and I've downloaded Tiffany, a Photoshop clone, which for some reason is taking forever to unpack (if I use the command line to unpack it's even faster)
A few more apps and I think I'm set! I'll see about taking a screenshot in a bit, this is too exciting!
Mon Mar 11 19:42:19 2002
Mon Mar 11 19:46:47 2002
For someone as interested as I am in old OS's (I even have an IBM PS/2 with OS/2 2.1 :) ) to not have OpenStep is akin to a tragedy. I also need to grab Windows 1.0, because I do in fact have an 8088 sitting around with little to do but look old. :biggrin:
I may be able to procure a few 486's with some NICs later on. That should be sufficient. mmm.
Mon Mar 11 20:29:06 2002
Mon Mar 11 22:46:11 2002
http://www.peanuts.org
And the abandonware page at
http://www.peak.org/~luomat/articles/software/licenses/index.html
My goal now is trying to get the Mail.app stuff working... it's the trickiest yet, as there's no easy interface to set SMPT/POP3 accounts. This is quite a failing, as even KDE supports this rather easily in its KMail...
Mon Mar 11 23:41:36 2002
I'm not sure if that 366MHz module from MyToshiba that you linked will work in mine, since it mentions a specific submodel of the 4080 (and also the Tecra 8000, which didn't seem to match my parts in my searches). But thanks again for that info.
Mon Mar 11 23:43:29 2002
from Jeremy Reimer posted at 1:03 pm on Mar. 11, 2002I think I'll go on a downloading spree and grab every Openstep application evar made EVAR!!!
OK, you've had a few hours now. I'm you've downloaded everything there was. :tongue:
Tue Mar 12 15:15:31 2002
Tue Mar 12 17:36:47 2002
D is Developer, it is the same as U but with the Objective C compiler, Interface Builder, and Project Builder, everthing you need to make custom apps in Cocoa, er, I mean Openstep, er, NeXTstep (it's all pretty much the same thing)
If I was a real programmer I'd go nuts over Developer, but I'm not. Interestingly, the developer tools for OSX are available for free at the Apple web site.
Tue Mar 12 18:14:27 2002
Tue Mar 12 18:18:32 2002
Tue Mar 12 18:19:11 2002
Glad to help.
Tue Mar 12 20:28:03 2002
Tue Mar 12 21:00:25 2002
Hey Hitscan, I got a copy of Win1 and Win2 laying around here somewhere if you need it....
Thu Mar 14 02:13:26 2002
from HitScan posted at 4:00 pm on Mar. 12, 2002Hey Hitscan, I got a copy of Win1 and Win2 laying around here somewhere if you need it....
R33t. I think someone at this address: jaceman7@hotmail.com, would love to know how to get at them. :biggrin:
Would you like Windows/286 while you're at it? I may have a copy or two lying among my old Amiga detritus. ;)
Thu Mar 14 03:43:13 2002
Thu Mar 14 13:34:07 2002
Would you like Windows/286 while you're at it? I may have a copy or two lying among my old Amiga detritus. ;)
Fri Mar 15 01:40:47 2002
from HitScan posted at 8:34 am on Mar. 14, 2002
Actually.... hehe. I do have some 286's hanging around here. My home is either a Tech Museum, or a Graveyard. :biggrin:
I'm right there with ya -- heck, I have stuff scattered into OTHER PEOPLES' basements. :biggrin:
Fri Mar 15 19:51:37 2002
K THX BYE
Fri Mar 15 20:17:24 2002
from Jeremy Reimer posted at 2:51 pm on Mar. 15, 2002
So, Harb, could you email me a copy of win 1/2 as well?
I don't have Win 1 or 2, sadly (or not). The oldest version I recall ever having was Windows/286 -- because we used to use it with a 286 card on an Amiga 500.
K THX BYE
If you ever use that again, I'm going to eviscerate you. ;)
Fri Mar 15 22:28:35 2002
I'd very much like that copy of Win/286 though. DON'T TELL BILL GATES!!!
Mon Mar 18 13:26:52 2002
Mon Mar 18 15:20:12 2002
from HitScan posted at 8:26 am on Mar. 18, 2002
Isn't Win 2.0 and Win/286 the same thing? Incedently, I have discovered I am a stupidass, as I have had win 1, 2, and 3.0a for some time. Uh, Ooops. :biggrin:
I'm not sure, as I've never actually seen a package titled "Windows 1.0" or "Windows 2.0" -- the first exposure I had to Windows was a stack of floppies titled Windows/286.
I haven't found them yet. They could be left in my friend's basement, where they've been since 1996. He hasn't come to bug me about removing my leftover junk (since he also has tons of leftover Amiga stuff himself ;)) so I haven't taken the time to recover them. I keep saying that I'll do it after I finish off the basement in our new house -- then I can set up The Wall Of Obsolete Computers.
Mon Mar 18 17:43:55 2002
There was a Windows 1.0 (released as 1.01, IIRC) and it was sucktacular. Very few people bought it off the shelf, because it did so little. However, I do remember Adobe Pagemaker 1 was released for the PC with great fanfare using a Windows 1 "runtime" (a lot of apps pre-Win3.x were released this way, because so few people had Windows)
Mon Mar 18 18:07:44 2002
;)
Mon Mar 18 18:08:25 2002
and Windows Advanced Server (think EARLY NT).
Mon Mar 18 18:48:39 2002
Windows Advanced Server (think EARLY NT).
Mon Mar 18 19:39:08 2002
Wed Mar 20 11:57:19 2002