Mon Mar 4 16:28:18 2002
None the less Mozilla is nice.
Chimera shows potential.
Meanwhile I only use IE on my mac because plugins unfortunately don't work on moz., plus its still a processor and memory hog. Hopefully by release 1.0 Mozilla will behave nicer.
Whats interesting is that using these browsers even makes IE 6 on my pc's look weak.
impressive...
Mon Mar 4 18:56:15 2002
Oh yesssssssss, they always come back!
Mon Mar 4 19:14:15 2002
A great example is the HeraldStore, where the rendering mechanism causes overlap on Mac IE browsers but not Win ones.
M.
Mon Mar 4 20:05:05 2002
I still propose that ASP isn't completely compatible on all browsers, despite showing as HTML.
Mon Mar 4 20:18:20 2002
he needs 27 more posts as well.
Mon Mar 4 20:34:03 2002
Now, think back and remember who builds/maintains that site...
but....
Hmm. No, it's spits out regular HTML same as any .html would. There is of course the fact that the Mac and Windows versions of IE aren't exactly in sync. Try this: Open the HeraldStore page that looks different on the other browser. Save the page as HTML. Open it in the other browser, and see if it's what you expect, or what it gets from the server.
Errrrnt. Wrong. That's what SHOULD happen. Unfortunately, the way the HTML is written and *represented* in the browsers is different. If you really need proof. Open the Hstore site with a Win 5.5 IE browser. Ok, now open the same site with a Mac 5 IE browser.
Look the same? No? But, but, but ASP generates platform neutral HTML....what happened?
Life happened.
M.
Mon Mar 4 21:21:28 2002
Incidently, could you point out one of the pages giving you trouble? I can't get to a whole lot of asp pages from the HeraldStore front page, but it looks the same on IE 4.5 Mac and IE 6 Win. Sadly (or rather, luckily, eh) I've nothing with IE 5.x on it here anymore, so I can't get a third opinion.
Mon Mar 4 21:31:41 2002
Rendering isn't the entire problem. The pages CAN be made to look the same between Mac and Win...if the *correct* HTML is used *correctly*. ASP doesn't do this.
No, I'm not a detractor of ASP. I'm a supporter. This simply isn't a good feature.
As for a difference: I'm viewing Hstore with WinIE 5.5 and:
http://www.heraldstore.com/backissues.asp
looks just fine with each of the covers spaced out.
Whereas,
the same URL looks messy on Mac IE 5, with the actual images blocking some of the ASP generated pricing/identification text.
Check it out.
M.
Mon Mar 4 21:40:32 2002
from Madan posted at 12:34 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
[Look the same? No? But, but, but ASP generates platform neutral HTML....what happened?
The only ASP that automatically generates HTML is ASP.NET with server-side controls. But I'm sure you're not using that :)
Edit: the html on that page you posted is horribly broken (and not by ASP :)). I'm taking a look now, I'll let you know later...
(Edited by PaoloM at 1:43 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 21:45:13 2002
ASP generates its own HTML.
The ASP on the backissues.asp page sets up a marker that allows for the spacing of the products.
I'm not telling the WinIE browser to do one thing and turning around and telling MacIE another. Hit was right in that respect.
They render differently. That's not my point of contention, however.
The problem is that there're ways of making them render identically in both browsers and ASP, as a default, self-generates HTML that doesn't do this....with other MS products.
Which is strange, to say the least.
Same problem with WebTV, btw....
ANOTHER MS product.
M.
(Edited by Madan at 1:47 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 21:50:12 2002
You start ok, then between lines 18 and 22 there's an empty table. Why?
The disaster strucks at line 39. You are redefining <html>, <head> and <body>! Basically get rid of lines between 39 to 45 (included).
On line 51 you start a <tr> without having closed </td> and </tr>. Bad Madan! :)
On line 286 you close the </body> tag. But there's still stuff to be displayed!
Finally, on line 334 you close the </html> tag without having closed </body> just before.
Try to fix these things and rerun your test. Everything should work.
Mon Mar 4 21:51:43 2002
from Madan posted at 1:45 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
Paolo, you're wrong.ASP generates its own HTML.
What's the asp code that automatically generates its own html?
Mon Mar 4 21:53:33 2002
You're correcting the HTML produced by the ASP file which looks nothing like it.
You can't even see the ASP file because, as Hit said, it gets pumped out as converted hyper-language.
Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.
They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.
Mon Mar 4 21:55:56 2002
<%@ Language=VBScript %></HTML
(Edited by Madan at 1:58 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 21:59:33 2002
Take my word for it. All the fucked up HTML isn't in the ASP file. I ran it through interdev and it checked out.
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:00:36 2002
<HEAD><TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD><BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
<center>
<table width="650">
<tr>
<td align="center"> <FONT COLOR="#55280E">The Miami Herald keeps an inventory of back issues for the past three
months. Also available are the following keepsake editions: </FONT>
<tr>
<td>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
The Herald accepts MasterCard <img src="images/mastercard.gif" width="51" height="31">
American Express <img src="images/americanexpress.gif" width="51" height="45">
<br>
Visa <img src="images/visacard.gif" width="57" height="34"> and DiscoverCard<img src="images/discover.jpg" width="63" height="36"><br>
<br>
</center></BODY>
(Edited by Madan at 2:01 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 22:03:48 2002
<%disp_back_issues(3)%>
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:05:59 2002
from Madan posted at 1:53 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
Uhm...Paolo...You're correcting the HTML produced by the ASP file which looks nothing like it.
You can't even see the ASP file because, as Hit said, it gets pumped out as converted hyper-language.
Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.
The ONLY way that a page renders differently on two browsers is that:
a) the HTML takes advantage of a particular feature of a browser
b) the HTML is broken and thus the failover display is handled differently by every browser
c) the browser rendering is broken.
I'll take b for $200, Alex...
Mon Mar 4 22:10:12 2002
Mon Mar 4 22:10:30 2002
No. It gets pumped out as HTML.
Hyper-language =Hyper TEXT MARKUP Language =HTML
Quote: Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.
Well, how do you explain it then? ASP's job ends within IIS. If you don't actually code browser checking code, ASP will take whatever you put in Response.Write statements and happily give it to IIS.
That's my point. IIS generates the HTML and sends it to both browsers that render it differently. Unfortunately, the HTML it chooses(IIS) does NOT work with both platform browsers. SURPRISE! There's no way of stopping this.
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:14:59 2002
from Madan posted at 2:10 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
No. It gets pumped out as HTML.Hyper-language =Hyper TEXT MARKUP Language =HTML
That's my point. IIS generates the HTML and sends it to both browsers that render it differently. Unfortunately, the HTML it chooses(IIS) does NOT work with both platform browsers. SURPRISE! There's no way of stopping this.
Trust me.
Mon Mar 4 22:17:23 2002
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:23:33 2002
from Madan posted at 2:17 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
From what my ASP 24 hrs book states the HTML is sent via IIS to the browser that renders it. No browser that I know generates its own HTML. HTML pages are originated/sent by the server. ASP is no different. The IIS/PWS server sends HTML to the browser that reads it...incorrectly. Unfortunately, there's no way to specifiy how/which HTML is sent(not without huge and ridiculous amounts of work, anyways).M.
However, IIS/PWS has also a scripting engine (called ASP) that will let you generate html based on a set of conditions and then proceed to process it as it was a simple html file. And I'm sure you know that.
Now, the html generated by YOUR code is wrong. There are <head> tags is wrong places, tables are not correctly compiled, etc.
IIS/PWS and ASP have absolutely nothing to do with this, they just execute whatever you're telling them to. If you tell it to send a <head> tag in the middle of the html file, it will dutifully perform the action.
The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.
Mon Mar 4 22:24:24 2002
The answer is...it doesn't matter.
IIS/PWS is essentially part of the ASP framework(since it really can't run wiout it 95% of the time).
Whether ASP or IIS makes the gaffe, the problem is the same. BTW, to clarify myself, I consider IIS part of the ASP framework.
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:25:21 2002
from Madan posted at 2:24 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
I think you're arguing about IIS vs. ASP HTML generation.The answer is...it doesn't matter.
IIS/PWS is essentially part of the ASP framework(since it really can't run wiout it 95% of the time).
Whether ASP or IIS makes the gaffe, the problem is the same. BTW, to clarify myself, I consider IIS part of the ASP framework.
M.
:)
Mon Mar 4 22:27:52 2002
The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.
LOL! Yeah because it couldn't possibly be *another* computer industry MS/Apple/Sun/Lunix gaffe. It *has* to be me!
Well, I doubt it. Of the five commercial sites I've built, I consistently post W3C compatible tags. IE is *supposedly* according to MS "W3C compliant". Even if it wasn't, I checked the code with Visual InterDev. So which one is chewing it's own nutsack on this?
InterDev or the server/ASP?
One of them has to.
M.
(Edited by Madan at 2:29 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 22:28:57 2002
Even so...a lot of it is there. Run it through. It's solid.
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:30:45 2002
M
Mon Mar 4 22:30:57 2002
from Madan posted at 2:27 pm on Mar. 4, 2002The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.LOL! Yeah because it couldn't possibly be *another* computer industry MS/Apple/Sun/Lunix gaffe. It *has* to be me!
Well, I doubt it. Of the five commercial sites I've built, I consistently post W3C compatible tags. IE is *supposedly* according to MS "W3C compliant". Even if it weren't. I checked the code with Visual InterDev. So which one is chewing it's own nutsack on this?
InterDev or the server?
One of them has to.
M.
Madan, if you want that to work, you have to show me the code you're working on so I can tell you exactly where are your mistakes. If you want to keep blaming Microsoft for your incompetence, go ahead, but don't expect help or suggestions from me.
Mon Mar 4 22:32:47 2002
from Madan posted at 2:28 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
I posted the code. Half of it won't show in the tags(ASP is in comment tags remember?)Even so...a lot of it is there. Run it through. It's solid.
M.
It is NOT fucking solid!
Look, open InterDev, load the asp page, Ctrl+A Ctrl+C, go to OSY, start a reply and type Ctrl+V. Repeat for ALL the files involved in the generation of this page.
Mon Mar 4 22:34:53 2002
DON'T ask me why.
As for the incompetence crack...I'll ignore it, since you're such a Winlot.
<%@ Language=VBScript %>
</HTML>
Mon Mar 4 22:36:09 2002
Any suggestions? Yes, I DID select all and ctrl c/ctrl v.
I tried straight in. I tried code tags...even quote tags.
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:36:18 2002
(Edited by PaoloM at 2:37 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 22:36:44 2002
WTF is going on.
Fuck this: Here:
www.heraldstore.com/here.html
M.
(Edited by Madan at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 22:39:27 2002
from Madan posted at 2:36 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD><BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
<center>
<table width="650" height="30">
<tr>
<td align="center"> <FONT COLOR="#55280E">The Miami Herald keeps an inventory of back issues for the past three
months. Also available are the following keepsake editions: </FONT>
<tr>
<td>
</HTML>
1 - either this is the first thing sent to the server for this page, in this case the closing </html> is wrong
2 - this is not the first thing sent to the server, in this case the
----------------
<HEAD>
<TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>
<BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
----------------
is wrong.
Edit: still, taken out of context, this piece is a bit worthless. I need the whole backissues.asp page and all the include files related.
(Edited by PaoloM at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 22:43:32 2002
from Madan posted at 2:36 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
It won't fucking do it. It chops lines out.WTF is going on.
Fuck this: Here:
www.heraldstore.com/here.html
M.
(Edited by Madan at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Rename it to .txt
Mon Mar 4 22:44:03 2002
I can't get it to post and when you try to download the asp file, it forces you to dl html, not the actual file.
Any ideas why I can't post the code in the board?
M.
Mon Mar 4 22:45:40 2002
from Madan posted at 2:44 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
No, there are includes at the top and scattered throughout.
Mon Mar 4 22:52:24 2002
www.heraldstore.com/ish.zip
Mon Mar 4 22:56:22 2002
from Madan posted at 2:52 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
Got it. It executes as text so I zipped it:www.heraldstore.com/ish.zip
I need ALL the files.
Mon Mar 4 23:00:25 2002
What are you...refreshing every 12 seconds?
M.
Mon Mar 4 23:02:51 2002
from Madan posted at 3:00 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
They're all in there.What are you...refreshing every 12 seconds?
M.
INDEED!
Mon Mar 4 23:09:45 2002
;)
M.
Mon Mar 4 23:24:47 2002
inc_pcf_functions.inc seems pretty innocuous. I think this is fine :)
shp_inc_db.inc looks nice too.
inc_page_template_header_joe.inc is where we have some problems. First of all, you include files before the doctype declaration. While it looks ok, doctype has to be on the first line received by the browser (W3C specs). Then you're including files that you're going to include again in ish.txt (or whatever you called it on the actual site, backissues.asp?). Either include them here or in the other file. I suggest you to include them here, so there's less work to do in the "content" page. Still you have an empty table here, between lines 20 to 24, that I'd suggest to be removed. Everything else looks fine.
I've fixed ish.txt and inc_page_template_header_joe.inc, but I can't really test them here :)
Let me see if I can post them here...
(Edit: quote code = bad :))
try here: http://www.paolomarcucci.com/madan.zip
(Edited by PaoloM at 3:27 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 23:28:31 2002
Edit: Oh yeah, in ish.txt, after the phrase
Also available are the following keepsake editions:
there are </font></td></tr> tags.
Given that they don't appear in the original view source from the site, I'd assume that there is some kind of control character or something that prevents the </td></tr> to be shown. Try to load/save with homesite.
(Edited by PaoloM at 3:32 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)
Mon Mar 4 23:33:24 2002
Now don't go haxoring into my site....
AYB wants to h@X0r! :)
First order of buisness, bring back Madan's Phish and make it dance. :cheesy:
Mon Mar 4 23:46:05 2002
M.
Mon Mar 4 23:53:30 2002
B. You can't have the W3C first(so much for W3C compatible).
Why? Because when I load the page, I get this:
Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0140'Page Command Out Of Order
/backissues.asp, line 2
The @ command must be the first command within the Active Server Page.
M.
Mon Mar 4 23:55:13 2002
from Madan posted at 3:53 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
A. Thanks for trying to help me out Paolo. You didn't have to and I do appreciate it.B. You can't have the W3C first(so much for W3C compatible).
Why? Because when I load the page, I get this:
Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0140'Page Command Out Of Order
/backissues.asp, line 2
The @ command must be the first command within the Active Server Page.
M.
Tue Mar 5 00:01:15 2002
Except I still have the same problem with the MacIE. :)
Shit this. I'd get a cap for you but I'm too lazy to ftp it around...Wait..I'll do it.
Hmmm.
M.
Tue Mar 5 00:06:33 2002
Our host changes default language all the time.
M.
Tue Mar 5 00:08:04 2002
Tue Mar 5 00:18:28 2002
in inc_page_template.inc, modify all the entries like:
<tr><td align="center" valign="bottom">
to
<tr valign="bottom"><td align="center">
basically, get rid of valign attributes in td tags. I know it works, but it's not standard and any browser can implement it as they please.
Tue Mar 5 00:20:41 2002
Too much trouble. I know that valign fits within td. If it's giving me error because of that...let it.
But thanks for the help! :)
M.
Tue Mar 5 06:45:31 2002
In any case, Madan, have you yet acknowledged that the ASP engine is producing the same code regardless of the browser that's viewing the page?
Tue Mar 5 14:19:22 2002
I KNOW that the HTML sent to both browsers is identical.
I don't craft the HTML. It's "translated" from ASP. I don't generate/control that code.
So why couldn't that code be Mac/WinIE platform interoperable?
I don't know.
M.
Tue Mar 5 14:35:48 2002
I don't craft the HTML. It's "translated" from ASP. I don't generate/control that code.
Please can you show me some ASP code that generates HTML?
(versus ASP code that exactly reproduces the HTML you've told it to write either by inlining it or through Response.Write)
Tue Mar 5 15:27:01 2002
Tue Mar 5 17:03:07 2002
I think Bad Vlad can assist you with your coding issues.
That was quite the funny/violent movie. :biggrin:
Tue Mar 5 17:14:20 2002
Suncoast called; my Evil Dead special editiion DVD is in. Be back later. :biggrin:
Wed Mar 6 01:46:09 2002
Was that a Mel Gibson film? Haven't seen it (yet).
Wed Mar 6 14:42:49 2002
Wed Mar 6 15:33:40 2002
Wed Mar 6 21:36:00 2002