< Back to OSY 1.0 thread list

OSY 1.0 Thread Viewer

Thread #: 1498

Msoft Internet explorer 6 has met its end!

OscarWilde

Mon Mar 4 16:28:18 2002

Damn, i just tried out chimera today. Its a really sweet and smooth browser. Its has some major kinks that don't allow it to be a full time browser but they just started the project.

None the less Mozilla is nice.
Chimera shows potential.

Meanwhile I only use IE on my mac because plugins unfortunately don't work on moz., plus its still a processor and memory hog. Hopefully by release 1.0 Mozilla will behave nicer.

Whats interesting is that using these browsers even makes IE 6 on my pc's look weak.

impressive...

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Mon Mar 4 18:56:15 2002

You'll be back.

Oh yesssssssss, they always come back!

Madan

Mon Mar 4 19:14:15 2002

I like IE on Win. Easy to code for. ASP works like a charm. Unfortunately, much to Peter's dismay, I still propose that ASP isn't completely compatible on all browsers, despite showing as HTML.

A great example is the HeraldStore, where the rendering mechanism causes overlap on Mac IE browsers but not Win ones.

M.

HitScan

Mon Mar 4 20:05:05 2002

I still propose that ASP isn't completely compatible on all browsers, despite showing as HTML.

Hmm. No, it's spits out regular HTML same as any .html would. There is of course the fact that the Mac and Windows versions of IE aren't exactly in sync. Try this: Open the HeraldStore page that looks different on the other browser. Save the page as HTML. Open it in the other browser, and see if it's what you expect, or what it gets from the server. If it's what you expect, something's probly wrong with a lot of things, including my head. If it's the same as the server, you know that it's got nothing to do with it being ASP, but theway the different browsers are showing the same code. Would be the same with CF or (shudder) CGI.
AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Mon Mar 4 20:18:20 2002

Hitscan is teh smarty :)

he needs 27 more posts as well.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 20:34:03 2002

HitScan, I know the theory behind ASP. The Hstore is coded in ASP, remember.

Now, think back and remember who builds/maintains that site...

but....


Hmm. No, it's spits out regular HTML same as any .html would. There is of course the fact that the Mac and Windows versions of IE aren't exactly in sync. Try this: Open the HeraldStore page that looks different on the other browser. Save the page as HTML. Open it in the other browser, and see if it's what you expect, or what it gets from the server.


Errrrnt. Wrong. That's what SHOULD happen. Unfortunately, the way the HTML is written and *represented* in the browsers is different. If you really need proof. Open the Hstore site with a Win 5.5 IE browser. Ok, now open the same site with a Mac 5 IE browser.

Look the same? No? But, but, but ASP generates platform neutral HTML....what happened?

Life happened.

M.

HitScan

Mon Mar 4 21:21:28 2002

Yes, Like I said, the renderer for IE Mac is different from IE Win. I suppose next you'll tell me that it also renders differently in Netscape? :biggrin:

Incidently, could you point out one of the pages giving you trouble? I can't get to a whole lot of asp pages from the HeraldStore front page, but it looks the same on IE 4.5 Mac and IE 6 Win. Sadly (or rather, luckily, eh) I've nothing with IE 5.x on it here anymore, so I can't get a third opinion.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 21:31:41 2002

Actually it renders the same on Netscape.

Rendering isn't the entire problem. The pages CAN be made to look the same between Mac and Win...if the *correct* HTML is used *correctly*. ASP doesn't do this.

No, I'm not a detractor of ASP. I'm a supporter. This simply isn't a good feature.

As for a difference: I'm viewing Hstore with WinIE 5.5 and:

http://www.heraldstore.com/backissues.asp

looks just fine with each of the covers spaced out.

Whereas,

the same URL looks messy on Mac IE 5, with the actual images blocking some of the ASP generated pricing/identification text.

Check it out.

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 21:40:32 2002

from Madan posted at 12:34 pm on Mar. 4, 2002
[Look the same? No? But, but, but ASP generates platform neutral HTML....what happened?

No Madan. ASP does NOT generate platform neutral HTML. It generates exactly what you tell it to generate. Blaming ASP for poor browser behaviour is not the answer.

The only ASP that automatically generates HTML is ASP.NET with server-side controls. But I'm sure you're not using that :)

Edit: the html on that page you posted is horribly broken (and not by ASP :)). I'm taking a look now, I'll let you know later...

(Edited by PaoloM at 1:43 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 21:45:13 2002

Paolo, you're wrong.

ASP generates its own HTML.

The ASP on the backissues.asp page sets up a marker that allows for the spacing of the products.

I'm not telling the WinIE browser to do one thing and turning around and telling MacIE another. Hit was right in that respect.

They render differently.  That's not my point of contention, however.

The problem is that there're ways of making them render identically in both browsers and ASP, as a default, self-generates HTML that doesn't do this....with other MS products.

Which is strange, to say the least.

Same problem with WebTV, btw....

ANOTHER MS product.

M.

(Edited by Madan at 1:47 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 21:50:12 2002

Basically, this is the result of a 3.5 minutes analysis :)

You start ok, then between lines 18 and 22 there's an empty table. Why?

The disaster strucks at line 39. You are redefining <html>, <head> and <body>! Basically get rid of lines between 39 to 45 (included).

On line 51 you start a <tr> without having closed </td> and </tr>. Bad Madan! :)

On line 286 you close the </body> tag. But there's still stuff to be displayed!

Finally, on line 334 you close the </html> tag without having closed </body> just before.

Try to fix these things and rerun your test. Everything should work.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 21:51:43 2002

from Madan posted at 1:45 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

Paolo, you're wrong.

ASP generates its own HTML.

What's the asp code that automatically generates its own html?

Madan

Mon Mar 4 21:53:33 2002

Uhm...Paolo...

You're correcting the HTML produced by the ASP file which looks nothing like it.

You can't even see the ASP file because, as Hit said, it gets pumped out as converted hyper-language.

Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.

They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 21:55:56 2002

Here's the actual ASP:


<%@ Language=VBScript %>

</HTML


(Edited by Madan at 1:58 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 21:59:33 2002

Neverfuckingmind, the ASP refuses to show up.

Take my word for it. All the fucked up HTML isn't in the ASP file. I ran it through interdev and it checked out.

M.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:00:36 2002


<HEAD><TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>

<BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
<center>
 <table width="650">
   <tr>
     <td align="center"> <FONT COLOR="#55280E">The Miami Herald keeps an inventory of back issues for the past three
       months. Also available are the following keepsake editions: </FONT>
   <tr>
     <td>
       </td>
   </tr>
 </table>
 The Herald accepts MasterCard <img src="images/mastercard.gif" width="51" height="31">
 American Express <img src="images/americanexpress.gif" width="51" height="45">
 <br>
 Visa <img src="images/visacard.gif" width="57" height="34"> and DiscoverCard<img src="images/discover.jpg" width="63" height="36"><br>
 <br>
 
</center></BODY>

(Edited by Madan at 2:01 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:03:48 2002

The empty cells aren't. ASP code isn't showing up because by nature, it has to be hidden.

<%disp_back_issues(3)%>

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:05:59 2002

from Madan posted at 1:53 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

Uhm...Paolo...

You're correcting the HTML produced by the ASP file which looks nothing like it.


Obvioulsy.

You can't even see the ASP file because, as Hit said, it gets pumped out as converted hyper-language.

No. It gets pumped out as HTML.
Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.

They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.


Well, how do you explain it then? ASP's job ends within IIS. If you don't actually code browser checking code, ASP will take whatever you put in Response.Write statements and happily give it to IIS.

The ONLY way that a page renders differently on two browsers is that:

a) the HTML takes advantage of a particular feature of a browser

b) the HTML is broken and thus the failover display is handled differently by every browser

c) the browser rendering is broken.

I'll take b for $200, Alex...

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:10:12 2002

Run this test for me, please. Load the page with all the browsers that are giving you problems and then do a view source. It should be exactly the same for all browsers.
Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:10:30 2002


No. It gets pumped out as HTML.

Hyper-language =Hyper TEXT MARKUP Language =HTML


Quote: Those changes you made are *interpretations* of the ASP page.

They wouldn't make a damn diff because there is no such code present within the ASP file(not in that order, anyways). I know, I just checked.  


Well, how do you explain it then? ASP's job ends within IIS. If you don't actually code browser checking code, ASP will take whatever you put in Response.Write statements and happily give it to IIS.

That's my point. IIS generates the HTML and sends it to both browsers that render it differently. Unfortunately, the HTML it chooses(IIS) does NOT work with both platform browsers. SURPRISE! There's no way of stopping this.

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:14:59 2002

from Madan posted at 2:10 pm on Mar. 4, 2002


No. It gets pumped out as HTML.

Hyper-language =Hyper TEXT MARKUP Language =HTML


INDEED! :D

That's my point. IIS generates the HTML and sends it to both browsers that render it differently. Unfortunately, the HTML it chooses(IIS) does NOT work with both platform browsers. SURPRISE! There's no way of stopping this.

For the last time... IIS does NOT CHOOSE what to spit out. IIS gets whatever comes from ASP and then forwards it to the browser. If your code generates bad HTML (as I pointed out), the rendering will be broken.

Trust me.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:17:23 2002

From what my ASP 24 hrs book states the HTML is sent via IIS to the browser that renders it. No browser that I know generates its own HTML. HTML pages are originated/sent by the server. ASP is no different. The IIS/PWS server sends HTML to the browser that reads it...incorrectly. Unfortunately, there's no way to specifiy how/which HTML is sent(not without huge and ridiculous amounts of work, anyways).

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:23:33 2002

from Madan posted at 2:17 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

From what my ASP 24 hrs book states the HTML is sent via IIS to the browser that renders it. No browser that I know generates its own HTML. HTML pages are originated/sent by the server. ASP is no different. The IIS/PWS server sends HTML to the browser that reads it...incorrectly. Unfortunately, there's no way to specifiy how/which HTML is sent(not without huge and ridiculous amounts of work, anyways).

M.


Ok. You are right that IIS/PWS sends pure html to the browser. That is how it's supposed to be, being it a web server.

However, IIS/PWS has also a scripting engine (called ASP) that will let you generate html based on a set of conditions and then proceed to process it as it was a simple html file. And I'm sure you know that.

Now, the html generated by YOUR code is wrong. There are <head> tags is wrong places, tables are not correctly compiled, etc.

IIS/PWS and ASP have absolutely nothing to do with this, they just execute whatever you're telling them to. If you tell it to send a <head> tag in the middle of the html file, it will dutifully perform the action.

The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:24:24 2002

I think you're arguing about IIS vs. ASP HTML generation.

The answer is...it doesn't matter.

IIS/PWS is essentially part of the ASP framework(since it really can't run wiout it 95% of the time).

Whether ASP or IIS makes the gaffe, the problem is the same. BTW, to clarify myself, I consider IIS part of the ASP framework.

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:25:21 2002

from Madan posted at 2:24 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

I think you're arguing about IIS vs. ASP HTML generation.

The answer is...it doesn't matter.

IIS/PWS is essentially part of the ASP framework(since it really can't run wiout it 95% of the time).

Whether ASP or IIS makes the gaffe, the problem is the same. BTW, to clarify myself, I consider IIS part of the ASP framework.

M.


CAN WE SEE TEH CODE?!?!?!?

:)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:27:52 2002

The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.

LOL! Yeah because it couldn't possibly be *another* computer industry MS/Apple/Sun/Lunix gaffe. It *has* to be me!

Well, I doubt it. Of the five commercial sites I've built, I consistently post W3C compatible tags. IE is *supposedly* according to MS "W3C compliant". Even if it wasn't, I checked the code with Visual InterDev. So which one is chewing it's own nutsack on this?

InterDev or the server/ASP?

One of them has to.

M.

(Edited by Madan at 2:29 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:28:57 2002

I posted the code. Half of it won't show in the tags(ASP is in comment tags remember?)

Even so...a lot of it is there. Run it through. It's solid.

M.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:30:45 2002

The include runs the spacing function. I'd post it but it won't fsking show up. Not under quote, code or any tag.

M

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:30:57 2002

from Madan posted at 2:27 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

The question is: what are you doing to put that tag there? If you can post here the ASP code, I can take a look and try to spot where the problem is.

LOL! Yeah because it couldn't possibly be *another* computer industry MS/Apple/Sun/Lunix gaffe. It *has* to be me!

Well, I doubt it. Of the five commercial sites I've built, I consistently post W3C compatible tags. IE is *supposedly* according to MS "W3C compliant". Even if it weren't. I checked the code with Visual InterDev. So which one is chewing it's own nutsack on this?

InterDev or the server?

One of them has to.

M.


http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldstore.com%2Fbackissues.asp&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=%28detect+automatically%29

Madan, if you want that to work, you have to show me the code you're working on so I can tell you exactly where are your mistakes. If you want to keep blaming Microsoft for your incompetence, go ahead, but don't expect help or suggestions from me.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:32:47 2002

from Madan posted at 2:28 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

I posted the code. Half of it won't show in the tags(ASP is in comment tags remember?)

Even so...a lot of it is there. Run it through. It's solid.

M.

It is NOT fucking solid!

Look, open InterDev, load the asp page, Ctrl+A Ctrl+C, go to OSY, start a reply and type Ctrl+V. Repeat for ALL the files involved in the generation of this page.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:34:53 2002

InterDev won't do it. Finally got it on HomeSite.

DON'T ask me why.

As for the incompetence crack...I'll ignore it, since you're such a Winlot.

<%@ Language=VBScript %>

</HTML>

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:36:09 2002

Hunh...doesn't come out.

Any suggestions? Yes, I DID select all and ctrl c/ctrl v.
I tried straight in. I tried code tags...even quote tags.

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:36:18 2002

Pack it in a zip file and put it somewhere where I can grab it.

(Edited by PaoloM at 2:37 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:36:44 2002

It won't fucking do it. It chops lines out.

WTF is going on.

Fuck this: Here:

www.heraldstore.com/here.html

M.

(Edited by Madan at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:39:27 2002

from Madan posted at 2:36 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>

<BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
<center>
 <table width="650" height="30">
   <tr>
     <td align="center"> <FONT COLOR="#55280E">The Miami Herald keeps an inventory of back issues for the past three
       months. Also available are the following keepsake editions: </FONT>
   <tr>
     <td>
       
</HTML>



Two things:

1 - either this is the first thing sent to the server for this page, in this case the closing </html> is wrong

2 - this is not the first thing sent to the server, in this case the
----------------
<HEAD>
<TITLE>backissues</TITLE>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
</HEAD>

<BODY BGCOLOR="White" link="Gray" vlink="Navy" alink="Purple">
----------------
is wrong.

Edit: still, taken out of context, this piece is a bit worthless. I need the whole backissues.asp page and all the include files related.

(Edited by PaoloM at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:43:32 2002

from Madan posted at 2:36 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

It won't fucking do it. It chops lines out.

WTF is going on.

Fuck this: Here:

www.heraldstore.com/here.html

M.

(Edited by Madan at 2:41 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)


I can't load asp files, they get executed :)

Rename it to .txt

Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:44:03 2002

No, there are includes at the top and scattered throughout.

I can't get it to post and when you try to download the asp file, it forces you to dl html, not the actual file.

Any ideas why I can't post the code in the board?

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:45:40 2002

from Madan posted at 2:44 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

No, there are includes at the top and scattered throughout.

This is why I asked you to pack all the files (asp and includes) into a zip file and post it on the site, so I can download it, unzip it and see what's the problem.
Madan

Mon Mar 4 22:52:24 2002

Got it. It executes as text so I zipped it:

www.heraldstore.com/ish.zip

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 22:56:22 2002

from Madan posted at 2:52 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

Got it. It executes as text so I zipped it:

www.heraldstore.com/ish.zip

I need ALL the files.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 23:00:25 2002

They're all in there.

What are you...refreshing every 12 seconds?

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 23:02:51 2002

from Madan posted at 3:00 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

They're all in there.

What are you...refreshing every 12 seconds?

M.

INDEED!

Madan

Mon Mar 4 23:09:45 2002

Now don't go haxoring into my site....


;)

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 23:24:47 2002

Ok, let's see...

inc_pcf_functions.inc seems pretty innocuous. I think this is fine :)

shp_inc_db.inc looks nice too.

inc_page_template_header_joe.inc is where we have some problems. First of all, you include files before the doctype declaration. While it looks ok, doctype has to be on the first line received by the browser (W3C specs). Then you're including files that you're going to include again in ish.txt (or whatever you called it on the actual site, backissues.asp?). Either include them here or in the other file. I suggest you to include them here, so there's less work to do in the "content" page. Still you have an empty table here, between lines 20 to 24, that I'd suggest to be removed. Everything else looks fine.

I've fixed ish.txt and inc_page_template_header_joe.inc, but I can't really test them here :)

Let me see if I can post them here...

(Edit: quote code = bad :))

try here: http://www.paolomarcucci.com/madan.zip

(Edited by PaoloM at 3:27 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 23:28:31 2002

I was sure that there was something else I've probably missed....

Edit: Oh yeah, in ish.txt, after the phrase

Also available are the following keepsake editions:

there are </font></td></tr> tags.

Given that they don't appear in the original view source from the site, I'd assume that there is some kind of control character or something that prevents the </td></tr> to be shown. Try to load/save with homesite.

(Edited by PaoloM at 3:32 pm on Mar. 4, 2002)

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Mon Mar 4 23:33:24 2002

Now don't go haxoring into my site....

AYB wants to h@X0r! :)

First order of buisness, bring back Madan's Phish and make it dance. :cheesy:

Madan

Mon Mar 4 23:46:05 2002

The Phish will be making a cameo on the new site.

M.

Madan

Mon Mar 4 23:53:30 2002

A. Thanks for trying to help me out Paolo. You didn't have to and I do appreciate it.

B. You can't have the W3C first(so much for W3C compatible).

Why? Because when I load the page, I get this:


Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0140'

Page Command Out Of Order

/backissues.asp, line 2

The @ command must be the first command within the Active Server Page.

M.

PaoloM

Mon Mar 4 23:55:13 2002

from Madan posted at 3:53 pm on Mar. 4, 2002

A. Thanks for trying to help me out Paolo. You didn't have to and I do appreciate it.

B. You can't have the W3C first(so much for W3C compatible).

Why? Because when I load the page, I get this:


Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0140'

Page Command Out Of Order

/backissues.asp, line 2

The @ command must be the first command within the Active Server Page.

M.


Get rid of that <@ language... thinghie, it's not necessary.
Madan

Tue Mar 5 00:01:15 2002

Whelp, I cleaned up the error on your mod code(simply inserted the tag above HTML and under the language @ identifier) and it WORKS!

Except I still have the same problem with the MacIE. :)

Shit this. I'd get a cap for you but I'm too lazy to ftp it around...Wait..I'll do it.

Hmmm.

M.

Madan

Tue Mar 5 00:06:33 2002

It *is* necessary.

Our host changes default language all the time.

M.

PaoloM

Tue Mar 5 00:08:04 2002

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. Let me see the code to display the covers...
PaoloM

Tue Mar 5 00:18:28 2002

Try this:

in inc_page_template.inc, modify all the entries like:

<tr><td align="center" valign="bottom">

to

<tr valign="bottom"><td align="center">

basically, get rid of valign attributes in td tags. I know it works, but it's not standard and any browser can implement it as they please.

Madan

Tue Mar 5 00:20:41 2002

I appreciate it Paolo but...well....I don't care anymore.

Too much trouble. I know that valign fits within td. If it's giving me error because of that...let it.

But thanks for the help! :)

M.

DrPizza

Tue Mar 5 06:45:31 2002

I believe that putting the <!DOCTYPE on the *same* line as the <@ directive (immediately next to each other:
<@ directive><!DOCTYPE >) then it generates the code correctly.

In any case, Madan, have you yet acknowledged that the ASP engine is producing the same code regardless of the browser that's viewing the page?

Madan

Tue Mar 5 14:19:22 2002

Peter, read my above posts. I tried your "trick". The Mac still renders it wrong.

I KNOW that the HTML sent to both browsers is identical.

I don't craft the HTML. It's "translated" from ASP. I don't generate/control that code.

So why couldn't that code be Mac/WinIE platform interoperable?

I don't know.

M.

DrPizza

Tue Mar 5 14:35:48 2002


I don't craft the HTML. It's "translated" from ASP. I don't generate/control that code.

What on earth do you mean by this?

Please can you show me some ASP code that generates HTML?

(versus ASP code that exactly reproduces the HTML you've told it to write either by inlining it or through Response.Write)

Harbinger

Tue Mar 5 15:27:01 2002

I think Bad Vlad can assist you with your coding issues.
HitScan

Tue Mar 5 17:03:07 2002

I think Bad Vlad can assist you with your coding issues.

(Guy from Payback)That's cold man. That's just cold.(/Guy from Payback)

That was quite the funny/violent movie. :biggrin:

Harbinger

Tue Mar 5 17:14:20 2002

Was that a Mel Gibson film?  Haven't seen it (yet).

Suncoast called; my Evil Dead special editiion DVD is in.  Be back later. :biggrin:

HitScan

Wed Mar 6 01:46:09 2002

Was that a Mel Gibson film?  Haven't seen it (yet).

Yes. "(yet)," indeed, that needs taken care of. :biggrin:
Harbinger

Wed Mar 6 14:42:49 2002

Well, I saw the DVD at BJ's for $14, so maybe next time I go... ;)
OscarWilde

Wed Mar 6 15:33:40 2002

Payback wasn't that great. Only the chickie that likes to whippie was kinda hot.
HitScan

Wed Mar 6 21:36:00 2002

I liked it. Of course, I also liked Get Carter and Ransom. And Moulin Rouge. That one makes me think I have a problem or something. ;)