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Thread #: 1380

Mozilla tabs are really nice!

OscarWilde

Thu Feb 7 14:25:27 2002

i just found out what peter was talking about in another thread. VERY COOL FEATURE!!!!

Right now i have in one browser window three tabs for the forums i visit. pegasus3d, xlr8yourmac, and arstechncia. Its nice keeping all the forums in one window. And I could use two more tabs before the top of the window looks cluttured.

Very nice feature.

I give this feature a 5 out of 5 for a nice and simple touch that adds to the experience. Props to teh developers.

Imitation Gruel

Thu Feb 7 14:32:30 2002

I don't particularly need tabs because I rarely have more than 1 browser window open, unless I am either quoting someone, or am reading a story and have a window in reserve.

But it does sound interesting.

DrPizza

Thu Feb 7 18:16:14 2002

Tabs annoy me.  They break the taskbar.

OscarWilde

Fri Feb 8 06:13:13 2002

How does it break the task bar?

I'm using it on win2k right now and i haven't noticed any glitches yet.

PaulHill

Fri Feb 8 19:26:26 2002

They break the taskbar concept.  Taskbar is document-centric (switching from screen to screen either by clicking or alt-tabbing), tabs are application-centric (go to the app and tab around).  As websites could be viewed as different applications, it's difficult to associate cognitive relationships between the browser and the apps the browser is running. Hence, bad UI.

What's better about the tabs than just starting three browser sessions?

(Edited by PaulHill at 11:27 am on Feb. 8, 2002)

pauli

Fri Feb 8 23:23:58 2002

the whole goal of tabs is to better organize things, and de-clutter the task bar.

that said, the only time i use anything like tabs is for irc, but i may stop even that. i find them largely irritating.

PaulHill

Fri Feb 8 23:43:35 2002

Taskbar grouping does a perfectly acceptable job of decluttering the taskbar, without an application taking on this "Responsibility", thanks.

An exception is made here of course for MDI apps like Visual Studio.NET or PhotoShop, as multiple windows tend to be related to the same project.

pauli

Sat Feb 9 01:05:13 2002

and if you open several threads from the same message board, are they not part of the same "project?"

as for taskbar grouping, i have no idea how it works so i won't comment on it.

DuffMan

Sat Feb 9 01:10:00 2002

The problem with the taskbar is that it runs out of space real quick. And XP's solution to this isn't that great. Hense, tabs are our friend.
PaulHill

Sat Feb 9 02:14:33 2002

XP''s solution at worst is no worse than tabs. At worst. Every single window is at most a click-drag-release away.
DrPizza

Sat Feb 9 03:44:56 2002

and if you open several threads from the same message board, are they not part of the same "project?"

No, as they have no dependence on one another.

This is distinct from the source files I have in VS.NET, which cannot compile without one another.

Taskbar grouping is a better solution to the same problem, with a better UI.

OscarWilde

Sat Feb 9 04:42:45 2002

:rolleyes:

thanks for the double standards and contradictons.

DeAthe

Sat Feb 9 06:58:45 2002

Taskbar uncluttering can kiss my damn ass.

When I have 8 IE windows open I don't want to have to click on the fucking taskbar, and select the window from a list! It's horrible. I *WANT* my taskbar cluttered and full o' shit.

Wait a second, all I have to do is turn it off.

/me is 'tarded.

Smack me, somone quickly, I think I may be becoming dumber.

OscarWilde

Sat Feb 9 07:57:07 2002

your post lost me... turn what off and what are you going on about with selecting windows from a list?
DeAthe

Sat Feb 9 08:41:48 2002

In XP you can have windows 'group similiar programs' in the taskbar. Basically what happens is if you have 3 or more IE windos open, it makes a group in the taskbard called 'internet explorer windows' when you want to move to one of the windows a list drops down when you click on the task in the taskbar, allowing you to select one of the open windows. A nice 'feature' built into XP. However, halfway through my rant, I realized I could just turn the damn thing off, so I did, and felt much better afterwards.

What are you doing in front of your computer on a saturday afternoon anyway? Should you be out having fun someplace?

DuffMan

Sat Feb 9 09:16:04 2002

from PaulHill posted at 6:14 pm on Feb. 8, 2002

XP''s solution at worst is no worse than tabs. At worst. Every single window is at most a click-drag-release away.

No, taskbar grouping is far worse than tabs. Often times I am switching from web page to web page, while not doing much with other applications. In this cases I would have to first click on the internet explorer item on the taskbar before I can even see what web pages I have open. Instead if the sequence, of look - click, I have to look - click - look again - click again. After a while this becomes a tedious process.

Sometimes I'd rather the taskbar not group them at all. But then, if I switch to using other applications, I don't want the taskbar cluttered with all my open web pages. In fact I would say, that tabs at its worse is as good as taskbar grouping, but is often much better.

Socrates

Sat Feb 9 10:44:10 2002

So is RQE's peabody, at least in a Pizza fantasy, I suspect...
gs
DuffMan

Sat Feb 9 10:48:12 2002

What's a peabody? I thought it was an award.
DrPizza

Sat Feb 9 14:35:39 2002

from OscarWilde posted at 4:42 am on Feb. 9, 2002

:rolleyes:

thanks for the double standards and contradictons.


There is neither.

MDI makes sense when there is an interdependence between the windows.

Web pages have no such dependence, hence tabs are stupid.  Each page is a distinct "unit", deserving an entire taskbar button.

Files in my IDE do, so tabs are sensible.  The files have to be treated together, because independently they're meaningless.  Hence, they should only have a single taskbar button.

DuffMan

Sun Feb 10 01:08:11 2002

Instead of MS coming down from on high and declaring "MDI == Interdependance" why not let users use whatever method of switching applications works best for them.

XP - The OS for people too stupid to make decisions.

PaulHill

Sun Feb 10 12:33:02 2002

I though they did?  It's not like you get a message box saying "This feature violates the UI guidelines and therefore will be disabled", is it?

Which is lucky, otherwise PhotoShop would never start.

OscarWilde

Mon Feb 11 03:38:14 2002

Peter, that contradiction and double standard post wasn't meant towards you, it was for Paul. I was just trying to rile him up! :biggrin: ;)

Anyvaaayyy!!!!  I still think tabs are a nice feature. The key thing is:
a) It don't break the taskbar at all.
b) You have the choice to use it or don't. To me THAT ADDS to a UI. Everyone has different work habits and preferences. That is evident by the various GUI philosophies that exist on various platforms and also by the mod's people make to their GUI.

Now regarding interdependant windows and what not.
I agree with the stuff about programming and keeping things organised within a window. Thats what I like about project builer versus Code Warrior.
The other nice thing about Project Builder (i'm not sure if its on MS compilers, but if it is, thats great) is the ability to have a lot of projects 'loaded' in a frame to the left of the main working window and then just choosing which projects you want to compile but still allowing you to work with various files without having to open up the files seperately.

Now here is the thing. Interdendancy does not have to be strictly files that are related absolutely, although that is what it means by definition.

Again its a choice. The way i set up my work flow I prefer a heirarchy of keeping sites within a window. I often have many many files and windows open. So to me having the browser which for me sits idle most of the time, i can create a window for forums and then within that window set tabs for various forums i visit. The same for news sites and so on. Then i minimize those windows and leave it in the taskbar till i need it.
The other thing is that I like to keep my taskbar at the minimum size. I dislike having the task bar taking to much of the screen real estate.

Again its a personal preference for the way i work and organize my work flow. I like a vertical heirarchy that tabs allow versus horizontal heirarchy that the task bar inforces.

Remember this: I don't like the dock in OS X either. So its not platform specific. Its not a complete dislike as I do find the dock/taskbar useful, but only to maintain the top most heirarchy of my work flow within that space.

Two years ago when I was still writing a lot in my spare time I noticed that one of the features I wanted most in MS word was something similar to tabs where I could allocate sections for chapters. I even wrote to msoft's people that handled consumer suggestions to add give a choice of seperating a word document into 'tabs'. That would be ideal for writers and college students who need to keep their work seperated. It makes it SOOOO MUCH easier to work with.

Introduction 'tab'
Chapter 1 'tab'
Chatper 2 'tab'
etc...
Bibligoraphy 'tab' (for college students or research papers)
Appendix 'tab'

You get the idea.

So back to the topic, it comes down to what you want and the choice you have. Hence why the contradictions and double standards. You always hear at the BF about how PC users have choices galore but introduce a method against the 'Msoft' way and its no no no, how dare you go against what msoft dictates. Fuck I wasn't saying YOU HAD TO USE IT. I merely said I like that the CHOICE IS there.

So yeah, all your reasons above are valid but it hardly constitutes to how everyone should work. After all we are different because of the very fact of how we as individuals organize and order the information we get every second of our lives. Other wise we would have no Einstein, no Mother Theresa, no Denzel Washington, no Osama Bin Ladin. Or coversly, if we were all the same then we would either be all Einstiens or Mother Theresa, etc., etc. or just all neanderthals.

;) :)