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Thread #: 1165

Stupid argument #1.

Madan

Wed Nov 14 22:43:12 2001

While I don't dispute that max PC speeds exceed max Mac speeds, the argument:

"PCs are better in every situation because you can build a faster machine for less."

has to be perhaps the most brutally stupid premise I've heard this month.

Just *how* many ppl build their own machines? Less than 10% ever "crack the shell", much less build their own.

The fact is, OEMs, while cheaper than Apple are significantly more expensive than "do it yourself". Moreseo, OEM total solutions are almost comparatively priced to Apple solutions.

Secondly, most 3D/2D artists, business ppl, home users and science researchers know nothing about hardware and do NOT build their own systems. Moreover, they have little interest in doing so.

When is the argument of cheaper assembly, by some tech monkeys, going to vanish?

We're not talking about enthusiasts, 9 times out of 10. We're talking about layusers that will never change their RAM much less alter their Bios, install a nic or change a mobo.

Stupid...

M.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Nov 14 23:02:25 2001

While I don't dispute that max PC speeds exceed max Mac speeds, the argument:

"PCs are better in every situation because you can build a faster machine for less."

Which also goes along with the argument that the Mac is better because it is faster on select filters of Photoshop

but also of note is the "Creative People Only Use Macs because Macs let them be more creative" bogus argument #76

I can think of a few reasons why I think Windows Machines are better, but yes, sometimes pure speed isn't an issue in certain applications.

I like Windows because of the Availability of software titles, especially games, the interface (which is superior IMO), my personal familiarity, and the fact that I can build a machine both cheaper and faster than a Mac.

But whatever floats one's boat, or whatnot as OW would say

;)

Madan

Wed Nov 14 23:14:49 2001

I'm not sure where your argument 76 came from but as to your post:


I can think of a few reasons why I think Windows Machines are better, but yes, sometimes pure speed isn't an issue in certain applications.

Let's be fucking honest. Except for behemoth biz class dbs and apps. High level 3D graphics, the speed differences in, say, Word on PC and Mac is almost non-existent.


I like Windows because of the Availability of software titles, especially games, the interface (which is superior IMO), my personal familiarity, and the fact that I can build a machine both cheaper and faster than a Mac.

For you. Fortunately, you are not the norm. In fact, you're not even a 10% norm. Moreso, while I can understand your preference for say, networking or app choice or OS, the premise that apps are unavailable for Mac is simply untrue.

While prohibitively fewer choices exist for Mac and while said choices are, to my oft-dismay, more expensive, one CAN perform effectively on a Mac....just as much so, 95% than on a PC.

For many, that effectiveness, couples greatly with it's seamless bridge between hardware/software and its ease of use/OS.

Still, your preferences, while legitimate, are not coincidental with the stupid argument posted above.

As for games, the newest games we've been talking about and most of the most popular ones can be played on a Mac.

BG II has a Mac version. As does the StarCraft I bought.

Mad.

AllYorBaseRBelong2Us

Wed Nov 14 23:20:10 2001

I'm not sure where your argument 76 came from

I guess you haven't been to the BF in recent days...

:)

DuffMan

Wed Nov 14 23:39:55 2001

Whether you build it or buy it from an OEM, it's still cheaper than a Mac.

Annother thing is that when you say "you could build a better machine for less" it doesn't neccesarily apply to you personally it could apply to an oem. Many OEM's offer more options in terms of customizing your hardware. Apple has gone from bad to worse. They used to give you some more options in terms of hardware. Now there is almost none. This makes the consumer pay for hardware they might not need, and is wastefull.

Madan

Wed Nov 14 23:49:06 2001


Annother thing is that when you say "you could build a better machine for less" it doesn't neccesarily apply to you personally it could apply to an oem. Many OEM's offer more options in terms of customizing your hardware. Apple has gone from bad to worse. They used to give you some more options in terms of hardware. Now there is almost none. This makes the consumer pay for hardware they might not need, and is wastefull.

Like what? A nic? A modem? Firewire?

Mac users for the most part...hell, MOST ppl that use Mac, be them diehards or not praise two features of the Mac above all others:

A. Ease of use(which is tied to the GUI and to the tight integration between OS and hardware)

B. A Mac's ability to grow with the user. You just got a digital camera and it has firewire? Whoops, your HP doesn't have it. Go get one installed.

Or,

Gee, you didn't think you needed a modem with your DSL until the service got cancelled....now you're dying to get online...

Or

You decide to try and link your laptop to your machine. Can be done wi a nic but NOT if your Dell was opt-out networking card.

While, yes, the cost is additional, it's also *very* reassuring for customers to know that no matter what wierd events come their way, Apples usually have a handle on it. Customers feel secure in the knowledge that they won't have to install new hardware or equipment. That they won't have to go several days(or weeks...) wiout their machine because it is being retrofitted to handle a situation that they, in their limited computer-knowledgeability failed to foresee.

While extremely informed users know what to look for, even they can benefit from some conservatism but even if they didn't, "extremely  informed consumers" are NOT even close to the norm.

Again, while 1/5 users may know what a "graphics card" is, only a tenth of that would even have a clue about 8500 vs GeForce 3 or how PCI and AGP fit into that equation.

To force customers to choose about hardware they understand very little of may prove to be a cost saving boon up front, it is more than cancelled, imo, by the lack of convenience, and extra $ spent later on when emergencies come up.

And as you know, emergencies always DO seem to come up...

M.

DuffMan

Thu Nov 15 00:03:48 2001

That might be true for home computers, but not for work machines. If I were Apple I would stop trying to baby the customer and only appeal to non-knowledgeable people. I would try to dispell the popular myth that Mac's are useless for any kind of serious work. In order to do that, they have to allow businesses to buy machines to their specifications. This doesn't mean that Apple should stop making those one-size-fits-all home machines, but give the consumer some choice as well. Allow them to Think Different, and make their own choices if they want to.
Madan

Thu Nov 15 00:07:20 2001

While I agree with your last post, I don't see that happening.

Not that most biz purchasers have a clue anyways.

Case in point, we have Accounting analysts running better machines(733s) than a Web dev(500)...

Make sense? Hell no.

Or the fact that they buy Win 98 for Web devs here?

Make sense? Hell no.

Or the fact that there are modems on some machines here?, while no sound card on machines in the advertising dept?

Make sense? You see my point.

While yes, customizing in biz would help. It would ONLY help, if most biz purchasers had an idea of what to look for(or what they should get) and, be they biz or techies, most simply don't have a *clue*.

M.

(Edited by Madan at 4:08 pm on Nov. 14, 2001)

DuffMan

Thu Nov 15 00:11:19 2001

Heh, tell me about it. Where I work, we have gigahertz machines that are basically just there and never used, and then we have our critical servers running on pentium 200's.
Madan

Thu Nov 15 00:22:10 2001

Since when did you start working for my company?

M.

Socrates

Fri Nov 16 11:07:04 2001

IN my last post to own the front page, I will say that a P2 400 with a maxtor drive, is a lot slower on an adsl, then a 1.4 gig Athlon with a cheetah.  Ram is more on the athlon 512 to 384.

Just little lags that are annoying.  

When is a mac card going to come out at around 666mhz???

Socrates

vc

Fri Nov 16 12:02:15 2001

No longer shall you 0wn the front page.
Socrates

Fri Nov 16 19:43:02 2001

Apple has always made people pay an arm, leg, and genitals for machines custom configed.

Why: I don't know.  So much for the think different approach to configuring your box.
It's more like:
Big Brother knows Best

Socrates

Magus

Fri Nov 16 20:00:01 2001

Think Different.

Grammar doesn't matter.

Socrates

Sat Nov 17 09:23:44 2001

"Buy what I give you, mother fuckers...."
Imitation Gruel

Sat Nov 17 09:38:47 2001

No, it's more like:

We'll offer incredibly overpriced and overhyped crap, and you'll take it up the ass and buy it anyway, because we're Apple, and make MacOS, and no one else sells it because we say so! And our computers are elegant.

(Edited by Imitation Gruel at 1:39 am on Nov. 17, 2001)

Socrates

Sat Nov 17 10:30:56 2001

IG combine both...